steiglitz:
The lowest educated people (direct report labourers) Drive the toyota and honda the dumbass, rich educated people (Engineers, managers) buy the volvo and mercedes and BMW and Land rover(choke).
BTW-Chevy Cavaliers and Pontiac Grandams are very high mileage capable.
Most people that buy Mercedes, BMW, Volvo, and LandRover do so to make a statement---->"I am better then you". And in fact, I read a study that more then 75% of buyers of such cars cannot really afford them. In addition, why people buy these when there are MUCH better and more dependable Japanese luxury cars just goes to prove that most buyers in fact buy those German/Swedish/English inferior brands to make that statement----> "I am better then you". Shallow, materialistic people that are into labels, "status" and "social standing". Sour grapes from a person that cannot afford such cars? Well you tell me; I can buy any two of them cash if I wanted.
As to American cars, sure they can go mega miles but NOT without mega repairs. Sure you and I can point to instances of a Pontiac or Chevy going 200,000+ trouble-free miles, but those examples are the exception and not the rule, to be sure.
But regardless, todays conventional dino oils will show less wear then those of 10+ years ago, and that is not subjective at all. Wear numbers are wear numbers in regard to the metals showing up in used oil analysis.
Even if what you say is true, Toyota engines of the 70’s 80’s and 90’s that were run on the API “SE, SF, SG & SH” oils available back then still had had little or no loss of cylinder compression by the 500K mile mark, hence their engines still performed like new.
Likewise in regard to the conventional vs. synthetic oil debate, even if it is true a synthetic produces better oil analysis wear numbers, the engines running conventional will still have little or no loss of cylinder compression by the 500K mile mark, hence they will still perform like new.
You say: “I use synthetic for it's better flow properties, and better protection at start up and better oil analysis wear numbers.”
And my point is: If we turned the clock back to 1976 and you bought a 1976 Toyota Corona used the factory recommended thick API “SE” 20W-40 or 20W-50 conventional oil your engine would have little or no loss of cylinder compression by the 500K mile mark despite the fact the thick 20W-40 & 20W-50 oil didn’t flow real well at start up, had only an API “SE” rating and was only conventional instead of synthetic.
I use dino oil in all my toys and they have ran fine for years, change oil every 5K.
synthetic oil is great and if you use it for what it was intended, it will save you money.
use it in vehicles that you do not want to take out of service for maintenance very often. example police cruisers, ups trucks, any type vehicle that when its down for service it costing you money.
with synthetic oil you can get up to 15k+ miles between service and the these vehicle get that type mileage quick,
a regular police curiser may get 2-3k+ miles a week if it's ran 3 shifts, it would need synthetic oil
I do not want oil in my motor for 10-15k miles, i want that dirt and moisture out of the engine, why I change oil at 5K (valvoline 10w40) and use wix filters.
Even if what you say is true, Toyota engines of the 70’s 80’s and 90’s that were run on the API “SE, SF, SG & SH” oils available back then still had had little or no loss of cylinder compression by the 500K mile mark, hence their engines still performed like new.
Likewise in regard to the conventional vs. synthetic oil debate, even if it is true a synthetic produces better oil analysis wear numbers, the engines running conventional will still have little or no loss of cylinder compression by the 500K mile mark, hence they will still perform like new.
You say: “I use synthetic for it's better flow properties, and better protection at start up and better oil analysis wear numbers.”
And my point is: If we turned the clock back to 1976 and you bought a 1976 Toyota Corona used the factory recommended thick API “SE” 20W-40 or 20W-50 conventional oil your engine would have little or no loss of cylinder compression by the 500K mile mark despite the fact the thick 20W-40 & 20W-50 oil didn’t flow real well at start up, had only an API “SE” rating and was only conventional instead of synthetic.
You make it sound as though most 1970's Toyotas lasted mega miles. This is not true, but this is not to fault Toyota. Most owners of most brands are not on top of proper maintenence. For those few, and yes few (a million is a few of several million cars) that made it mega miles, it was because of proper owner maintenence more then anything else.
I agree that the cr@p oil of the 1970's was still good enough to allow a Toyota engine to reach mega miles, so we agree there. But this is not to suggest that the conventional or synthetic oils of today are no better, and UOA's will bare this out.
Agreed Ryan. Certain poster here continues to lambast this and other Yaris sites with profund bool sheet so thick you can cut a knief with it...the amazing thing that he claims is beyond reality, and fact, to be sure.
Toyotas all over the world have logged trillions and trillions of miles with Toyota filters but this fact escapes some.
My personal experience as one of the better NIASE Master Techs from the 70's and as an Degreed Mechanical Engineer working in the aircraft/automotive electrical component design industry- Who are you to call my well considered FACTS bull when everyone else is citing pseudo-science and stastically irrelevant crap. My information is based on FIRST-HAND experience and a current owner of 2 Toyotas. Another subject: I bet there are MORE surviving 4cyl GM motors on the road from the 1990's than the Toyota sludgers - but I do not have data so, I cant say. Now, Steiglitz seems to to drink and hand out the Toyota cool-aide with no factual or statistically relevant information - so whom is the REAL BS'er here? You can continue to speak to the sheep, morons and uneducated and I'll speak to the cogniscenti
BTW - I run JAPAN MADE Denso OEM filter on my wifes rav-4. There is no such thing as a "Toyota Filter" per seThey are made by Denso. I am complaining about a bad spate of Thailand manufactured Denso filters sold as replacement service part through the dealer network. You are just so biased and brainwashed you cannot beleive that they would ship a part NOT TO SPEC. I had a hard time swallowing this too - but FACTS are FACTS. And I know how to install a filter properly. Corporate Toyota Goons are taking aver this site - PAY NO ATTENTION TO THEM - THEY PASS OUT THE SPIKED COOLAID.
BTW - I run JAPAN MADE Denso OEM filter on my wifes rav-4. There is no such thing as a "Toyota Filter" per seThey are made by Denso. I am complaining about a bad spate of Thailand manufactured Denso filters sold as replacement service part through the dealer network. You are just so biased and brainwashed you cannot beleive that they would ship a part NOT TO SPEC. I had a hard time swallowing this too - but FACTS are FACTS. And I know how to install a filter properly. Corporate Toyota Goons are taking aver this site - PAY NO ATTENTION TO THEM - THEY PASS OUT THE SPIKED COOLAID.
Facts are facts, yet you will find NO EVIDENCE on the internet, not in ANY Toyota and/or Yaris forum of anyone's engine being cooked by a bad Toyota Filter. Sure, it is possible that a filter can be out of spec, but you make it sound as though they mostly are out of spec, and that to use one would mess up one's car. Bogus booolsheet....Grumpy, why do you BoolSheet here, at yarisworld and other forums? Thank God most of the readers of your posts can see past your booolsheet...you, the same yahoo that claims using w20 grade oil will fry our Yaris engines....most every day you spread more and more boolsheet all over, when are you going to stop the proliferation of outright lies? At this point, your outrageous claims are getting funnier and funnier....lol
Facts are facts, yet you will find NO EVIDENCE on the internet, not in ANY Toyota and/or Yaris forum of anyone's engine being cooked by a bad Toyota Filter. Sure, it is possible that a filter can be out of spec, but you make it sound as though they mostly are out of spec, and that to use one would mess up one's car. Bogus booolsheet....Grumpy, why do you BoolSheet here, at yarisworld and other forums? Thank God most of the readers of your posts can see past your booolsheet...you, the same yahoo that claims using w20 grade oil will fry our Yaris engines....most every day you spread more and more boolsheet all over, when are you going to stop the proliferation of outright lies? At this point, your outrageous claims are getting funnier and funnier....lol
All of Grumpy's ramblings makes sense to professional engine builders, but not to the uninformed. I would not take ANY advice from a non-professional, though you can weigh multiple responses and form your own opinion. --- Sz- You can only resort to name calling - the last resort of the politician; I'm sure that wins you an admiring audience. ----
So, do what you want and reap your just reward. I've owned over 70 cars in my life and don't expect to have this one for more than 40K miles. I'm am looking for the highest performance that pleases ME; so to each their own, take my advice or trash it; just trying to save some owners some heartache. Ioften run my car at 80-100MPH on my 32mile everyday commute and need the engine to run and live at the upper torque peak. The Toyota Manual strongly suggests running higher viscosity oil than the supplied 5W-30 at high speeds for extended periods - so YOU suggest we do the OPPOSITE that the Toyta Engineering recommends? Oh, now THAT makes sense ( cough) I'm just running the weight that came in the car - even THATS supposed to be too thin for my scenario. But Of course , Sz, EVERYTHING is perfect in Toyota land, so just piss in your engine and put on a Fram filter and you're good for 200K miles.
p.s.:
If any one want some REAL info about oil - go to the Tribologist's professional site at NORIA and poke around. BITOG is full of baffoons ...
Last edited by grumpy in NH; 07-18-2008 at 01:05 PM.
Reason: sp
All of Grumpy's ramblings makes sense to professional engine builders, but not to the uninformed. I would not take ANY advice from a non-professional, though you can weigh multiple responses and form your own opinion. --- Sz- You can only resort to name calling - the last resort of the politician; I'm sure that wins you an admiring audience. ----
So, do what you want and reap your just reward. I've owned over 70 cars in my life and don't expect to have this one for more than 40K miles. I'm am looking for the highest performance that pleases ME; so to each their own, take my advice or trash it; just trying to save some owners some heartache. Ioften run my car at 80-100MPH on my 32mile everyday commute and need the engine to run and live at the upper torque peak. The Toyota Manual strongly suggests running higher viscosity oil than the supplied 5W-30 at high speeds for extended periods - so YOU suggest we do the OPPOSITE that the Toyta Engineering recommends? Oh, now THAT makes sense ( cough) I'm just running the weight that came in the car - even THATS supposed to be too thin for my scenario. But Of course , Sz, EVERYTHING is perfect in Toyota land, so just piss in your engine and put on a Fram filter and you're good for 200K miles.
p.s.:
If any one want some REAL info about oil - go to the Tribologist's professional site at NORIA and poke around. BITOG is full of baffoons ...
Grumpy, where are you getting this so-called "Toyota Engineering" boolsheet?
A bullitin directly from Toyota says we can run 5W-20 and 0W-20 in our Yaris engines WITHOUT ANY PROBLEMS. This is from Toyota! It is official. It is a TSB that one can find here and many other Yaris sites. And you claim that 30w is too light? Why should anyone believe you over Toyota?
Please do post any and all "official" Toyota information specifically for the Yaris that says otherwise. If you can't then you need to be man enough to admit that you have a problem with spreading boolsheet on the web.
Go ahead and run the 5W-20. When your piston skirts all collapse don't go crying to me. No engine EVER designed can run a 20w or 30w at operating temp. Pistons and Journal clearances are designed for one or the other weight. Toyota can send their bulletin, then they can repair all the junk engines that will follow. Watch and See. BTW, the bulletin doesn't allow 0w-20 usage in the earlier 1NZ motors. Read the Owners manual on motor oil weight selection, and high speed driving.
Last edited by grumpy in NH; 09-08-2008 at 01:04 PM.
Reason: sp
Re: Use of synthetic motor oil
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