Toyota Tundra Forums banner

1 - 17 of 17 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
435 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
All things being equal, a CrewMax costs more than a DoubleCab even in situations where both trucks have the exact same option package, down to the last detail. I'm not talking $500 more, but about $2000 more.

I'm wondering why this is, unless there is some greater cost to manufacture a CrewMax compared to that of a Doublecab. The basic difference between the two is a longer cab unit and shorter bed size. Other than a little less sheet metal, the same man-hours are required for the Doublecab as that for the CrewMax.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,580 Posts
I would imagine that interior space is more expensive to build than bed space per square inch. Also, did you figure the rear sliding window?

The price difference doesn't surprise me. I'll bet it has little to do with actual cost. They may figure that there is much less competition for large cab pickup trucks. The most comparable option would be a Dodge Megacab.

Also, they may figure that anyone who needs that much cab space over bed space is probably less price sensitive. Perhaps they feel like they are dabbling in the price territory of a Suburban, a Hummer, a Land Cruiser, or a Sequoia. After all, it seems that Toyota is willing to re-evalute the price within one month of release and immedately adjust accordingly - with coupons. In fact, there is probably some kind of schedule that says if they don't sell this many units within the first month, this kind of discounting starts. It must have been that way with the quick reaction to the regular cab price.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
435 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
You may be right. Still, I like to be able to understand it. I don't mind paying more for something, as long as I know I'm getting more for my money. If you consider that the Doublecab has the same interior components as far as front and back seating (although a little smaller) I still cannot see how it costs that much more to build a CrewMax.

From a business standpoint, it just seems to me that Toyota's challenge is not profit margin, but rather market share. If they hope to challenge the Detroit 3 and actually start to make in-roads with the American trucking heartland, they must put trucks on the road. They must be seen, driven, ridden-in, walked around, talked about and fully immersed into that segment. Toyota isn't going to accomplish much by having their higher priced trucks sitting on dealer lots, sold sporadically to Toyota loyalists and weekend urbanists. And yet, that's what I see happening - Toyota trying to squeeze every bit out of the consumer on price, while the Detroit 3 continue to price well below that of Toyota.

If you compare a Nissan Titan Crew Cab, which is comparable to the new CrewMax, you can get a LE package (similar to Toyota's Limited) for around $34,500 MSRP. That's at least $3,000 less than Toyota. Ford, Chevy and Dodge are out there now with 0% financing and $4,000 rebates.

Is it any wonder Tundras are not flying off the lots? Seems a bad business strategy to me.
 

·
Jedi Ninja in Training
Joined
·
8,309 Posts
If you consider that the Doublecab has the same interior components as far as front and back seating (although a little smaller) I still cannot see how it costs that much more to build a CrewMax.
Wrong! The rear seat is adjustable/sliding, flat folding, and reclining. Rear window is Standard, power vertical roll down with defrost.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,580 Posts
I'd say their challenge these next couple of months is not market share but to sell as many trucks as they can build for the most profit. Why create more demand when you can't even build or distribute enough to meet your immediate demand? You just make customer angry because they want to buy but it's not available yet. I would expect incentives to come in fairly quickly, especially once San Antonio starts to build the Crewmax.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
742 Posts
On the Limited, you also get power adjusting tilt and telescope wheel and memory setting for the seat, mirrors and steering wheel.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
352 Posts
I guess for the same reason that a Sequoia cost about $10K more than a 1st gen. Tundra. Yet they share the same basic chassis, same drive train, etc. A few more bells and whistles and a "covered bed" doesn't seem like it would amount to 10k. So, like with the crewmax, maybe it's more a profit thing.

Jim
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
357 Posts
You may be right. Still, I like to be able to understand it. I don't mind paying more for something, as long as I know I'm getting more for my money. If you consider that the Doublecab has the same interior components as far as front and back seating (although a little smaller) I still cannot see how it costs that much more to build a CrewMax.

From a business standpoint, it just seems to me that Toyota's challenge is not profit margin, but rather market share. If they hope to challenge the Detroit 3 and actually start to make in-roads with the American trucking heartland, they must put trucks on the road. They must be seen, driven, ridden-in, walked around, talked about and fully immersed into that segment. Toyota isn't going to accomplish much by having their higher priced trucks sitting on dealer lots, sold sporadically to Toyota loyalists and weekend urbanists. And yet, that's what I see happening - Toyota trying to squeeze every bit out of the consumer on price, while the Detroit 3 continue to price well below that of Toyota.

If you compare a Nissan Titan Crew Cab, which is comparable to the new CrewMax, you can get a LE package (similar to Toyota's Limited) for around $34,500 MSRP. That's at least $3,000 less than Toyota. Ford, Chevy and Dodge are out there now with 0% financing and $4,000 rebates.

Is it any wonder Tundras are not flying off the lots? Seems a bad business strategy to me.
Judging from this forum, it doesn't look like there will be many crewmax, sitting on the lots. As it seems a lot of people want this model. My guess, six months at the least before the sales start to slow down on the crewmax. But then again, what do I know?
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
162 Posts
Great thread...two points I want to make:

1) I'm guessing that three factors (in order of significance) make the crew more expensive: The extra materials (not much, but probably a few hundred); The additional labor (extra materials mean extra work), and; Lower economies of scale. Lower production volumes (fewer crews produced than ext cabs) mean higher costs for each crew-exclusive part. Hence, reg. cabs are always cheapest (they share the most parts), then ext. cabs (they share a good portion), then crews (least number of common parts). I would expect that as the new Sequoia comes into prodcution, the costs of the crew will decrease. However, knowing Toyota, they probably already determined that cost savings and factored it into today's price. Also, people are more willing to pay more for more vehicle. There is certainly a profit component here.

2) Why aren't these things selling? I just spoke with a friend that works at a local Toyota dealership and I was shocked to learn they have 25 of these trucks in stock right now...amazing. These things should be flying off the lots. My guess is that awarness isn't very high right now.

To speak to the point about market share, I half-agree. On the one hand, Toyota definetely needs to get these trucks out into the public eye. Selling them at a discount can be a good way to drive traffic. On the other hand, look what's happened to the detroit three...they were all chasing market share and their profits (indeed their future existence) suffered. Do you earn more by gaining market share thru discounts, or do you earn more by building a quality product that's in high demand? (high demand being due to quality and low production volume).

I know what I'd do if I was Ichiro Toyota -- sell these trucks at low volume for a nice profit and use that money to invest in updating my product. Create a hybrid Tundra, a strong entry into the diesel market, etc., and leave volume and market share (and all of the profit siphoning that comes with it) to the "big three" :D (I laugh because they're not that big...).

Check out my website for a Tundra v. F150 comparison I'm doing. It will be ready later today.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
435 Posts
Discussion Starter #12
Why aren't these things selling? These things should be flying off the lots. My guess is that awarness isn't very high right now.

To speak to the point about market share, I half-agree. On the one hand, Toyota definetely needs to get these trucks out into the public eye. Selling them at a discount can be a good way to drive traffic. On the other hand, look what's happened to the detroit three...they were all chasing market share and their profits (indeed their future existence) suffered. Do you earn more by gaining market share thru discounts, or do you earn more by building a quality product that's in high demand? (high demand being due to quality and low production volume).

I know what I'd do if I was Ichiro Toyota -- sell these trucks at low volume for a nice profit and use that money to invest in updating my product.
Yes, but Ford and Toyota represent totally different ends of the spectrum. There's a big difference, militarily speaking, between trying to defend a fixed position and organizing an attack on that position. That's basically where Ford (on the mountain top) and Toyota (attacking the Ford position) are right now.

Ford is firmly esconced as an age-old mainstay of U.S. truckmakers. When it comes to market share, Ford has it. Last year, Ford sold more trucks than anyone else, and Ford's pickup line is the number one seller and most profitable for that company.

Toyota, on the other hand, is a relative newcomer to the full size truck market. It merely dabbled with its T100 and Tundra models before finally bringing the latter up to competitive standards. Now it has a contender, but just building it won't complete the quest. Toyota's only hope of expanding its share is to fill the pipeline with it's trucks. It cannot simply hope that all the Chevy, Ford and Dodge owners will drop their loyalty just because the Tundra is there.

I'm not saying Toyota should give away the store, or take a loss on their trucks, but I am saying they cannot expect to sell these things at $2000 over invoice (or more) with no other incentives and expect to gain market share on the competition. Otherwise, a year from now we'll be reading stories on how Toyota fell 75,000 short on that goal of selling 200,000 Tundras in 2007.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
103 Posts
The extra price for the crewmax is profit, nothing more. Actual cost of building it has little to do with how it's priced, it's what toyota thinks they can sell them for that determines the price.

I get a chuckle out of the guys who can't understand why the tundras aren't flying off of the lots. The stated reason seems to be "it's a toyota so everyone should want one". They seem to forget that the thought patterns that exist on a toyota enthusiast's website aren't prevalent in the rest of the world. Not everyone thinks that something is worth more money just because it has toyota stamped on it. While a toyota enthusiast might pay several thousand more for a toyota tundra than a ford F150, most people wouldn't. Tundra's are nice trucks, but they're still unproven and nothing really stands out about them over their competition that makes them worth several thousand more for an equivalent truck. In order for the tundra to be a success toyota has to market them to the mass market, not just toyota enthusiasts. If toyota wants to control a major portion of the pickup market then they've got to make their pricing competetive, otherwise they're just going to be a niche player like they were with the old tundra.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,108 Posts
[QUOTE=tundrahq;

2) Why aren't these things selling? I just spoke with a friend that works at a local Toyota dealership and I was shocked to learn they have 25 of these trucks in stock right now...amazing. These things should be flying off the lots. My guess is that awarness isn't very high right now.

**************************************************************************************************************
Most likely 25 en route, prob only a few reps driving CrewMax's in the entire country.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
764 Posts
Today I went back to the dealer I bought my truck from back on 2/24/07 and they still had almost all the other trucks that were on the lot when I bought mine. The salesperson told me that they weren't selling as fast as they thought. They still had the same very nice DCab Limiteds and even DCab 4x4 longbeds like mine. At the time I bought mine (and I had been chomping at the bit watching news releases on the new truck for a year) I felt lucky to get it due to the fervor when the trucks first hit with people in line to test drive them. Maybe I could have waited a few weeks longer to grind the dealer on price negotiations. I wonder if the Crew Max models will see a similar response once all the real Toyota enthusiasts get theirs after the first few weeks of release.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3 Posts
if i can remember correctly, i saw a commercial today for the new tundra with an incentive of 3.9% APR, as supposed to their usual 7-8% toyota offers maybe thats an incentive to draw people into the showrooms
 
1 - 17 of 17 Posts
Top