[TexasToyota]

Hello, I found this site while researching the new Tundra. I'm considering trading in my Tacoma for a crewmax since my Tacoma's getting too small other than that it's been a great truck. I saw a few threads about slow sales with the Tundra and thought i'd post this article I found on tundraheadquarters.com BTW I believe the only reason sales aren't significant yet is because the crewmax is not out in large numbers yet. Once that happens sales will most likely spike. From what i've read on here the Tundra seems to be a great truck, apparently the only problem so far is no tread left on the rear tires

Article: tundraheadquarters.com » Toyota Tundra launch worse than expected

 

[slice]

That article is exactly right. IMO, Toyota went to great lengths to build a real 1/2 ton truck that can compete and then they went and priced themselves out of the market for the very buyers they were trying to capture. That artilce say's the difference can be up to $5,000. That's BS. The difference can be over $10,000 under the right circumstances.

You've got 2 types of customers out there. One is going to buy Toyota even if they released a turd with a Toyota badge on it. Then you have the customers that want the best value. These are the people that Toyota is not going to be able to attract at their current prices.

I know people get pissed at my example, but when I first went to look at the 07 Tundras, I was SHOCKED that I could get a 3/4 ton quadcab diesel 4x4 for less then I could get a nicely equipped 2wd Tundra for. That's insane. Plus you have to take into account that Toyotas interest rates are higher and their warranty is less. All that weighs heavy on the average consumer.

Sure, the Toyota may have a higher resale but who cares when you are covering the cost of that high resale right up front by a higher purchase price? So your Tundra may be worth 2k more than a GM in 4 years. Doesn't really matter if you paid 6k more for the truck new. Toyota is going to have to find out the hard way that this truck at it's current price is going to live in the grocery hauler ranks and not in the working ranks just like the previous Tundra. If they want to tap into the big market of the work truck then they are going to have to play by the work truck market rules, and that's not by selling pickup trucks for Lexus prices.

 

[Art64]

They also need to ramp up production of their 5.7L base truck--reg cab non SR5, with minimum options. This will reduce the truck's price significantly. Right now in my area, there are a small number of 5.7L reg cabs and all of them are nicely equipped with all the possible options that Toyota can put in a reg cab. So, the price is almost $30k--for a reg cab. With the housing market in a slump and the gas prices going up, its going to be very hard to sell. I've only seen 1 07 Tundra on the freeway so far. A lot of new Tacomas though. I've been wanting to buy a 5.7 reg cab base truck but its lke gold here in the area. Non are available. So spare me some fustrations and stress, I'll wait till the end of the year or early part of next year to get one. Hopefully, the dealerships will be overflowing with 07 Tundras.

 

[stubblejumper]

When I priced out the limited doublecab 4x4 tundra with 5.7 against the new top level GMC extended cab with 6 litre engine,active handling,20" wheels etc,the GMC actually had a higher MSRP here in Canada.

 

[slice]

When I priced out the limited doublecab 4x4 tundra with 5.7 against the new top level GMC extended cab with 6 litre engine,active handling,22" wheels etc,the GMC actually had a higher MSRP here in Canada.

There's generally not much difference in the MSRP on the upper end models. There seems to be a much larger gap on the lower end models. The difference is in the final sales price and I know for a fact that truck for truck Toyota is nowhere near the price of domestics at the moment when it comes to the OTD price.

 

[stubblejumper]

The difference is in the final sales price and I know for a fact that truck for truck Toyota is nowhere near the price of domestics at the moment when it comes to the OTD price.

While it is certainly true that there are larger discounts from the big three,the difference isn't enough to make their trucks that much cheaper.In this case the GMC MSRP was actually $1400 more than a comparable Tundra.Therefore,if the discount off of MSRP for the Tundra was $2000,the discount on the GMC would have to be $3400 just to match the Tundra.In my area,the GMC discounts typically run from $4000 to $5000 off of MSRP or a whole $600 to $1600 less than the Tundra.This is certainly not "nowhere near the price of domestics at the moment when it comes to the OTD price".

 

[jliltd]

Hey Slice,

Could you share your pricing information on the new 4x4 3/4 ton diesel quadcab that's cheaper than a new 2WD Tundra? I've seen you state that in other postings and would like to see some pricing details on that specific transaction as I haven't been able to keep up on things close enough to find a similar deal. Maybe there's hope for diesels yet.

 

[slice]

Hey Slice,

Could you share your pricing information on the new 4x4 3/4 ton diesel quadcab that's cheaper than a new 2WD Tundra? I've seen you state that in other postings and would like to see some pricing details on that specific transaction as I haven't been able to keep up on things close enough to find a similar deal. Maybe there's hope for diesels yet.

Bare with me on this, my justification will not make sense to many here but this is what I've seen.
I looked at a 2wd DC limited Tundra that was just a hair under 37 grand and a 4x4 that was right at 36k and it was an SR5 DC. We already know that you're lucky to get much, if any off MSRP.

For work everday I drive by a dealership that has a sticker on the new quadcab 3/4 ton 4x4 Cummins Dodges on the lot advertising a price of 33k and some change. Now, I can only speculate that they would come off of that a little bit more. These are not fully loaded, but they are very well equipped trucks. Now your talking a lot more truck with a 100k engine warranty and 0% for 72 months financing for a cheaper OTD price... Put it this way, I paid the same for my fully loaded Dodge 2500 with the gold extended warranty as they are getting for a 2wd limited 1/2 ton tundra and I actually have more options. Now, before the resale issue gets brought up, I dare someone to claim that the Cummins equipped Dodges have a bad resale value compared to anything..

Granted that this is just my opinion and God knows it's not popular around here but that's just how I see it and I bet that's why sales are low on this new Tunrda because lots of people share my views. The Tundra is without a doubt one bad truck, but to many it isn't worth the price of admission.

 

[nferra2]

I know I guy who just bought a 4X4 Dodge cummins. It cost him about 33k, and it sure does look nice. However in the 3 months he has had it, he has taken it back twice for a bad ignition, and once becuase they did not attach the exhuast right. He also has already had trim pieces come loose on the inside and the interior looks like it came out of the Neon. It will do what he needs it to do, Haul a camper, but he has a 90's tacoma he just bought so he has something dependable for a daily driver.

 

[jliltd]

Slice: There is no such thing as a Crewmax Longbed.

Nferra2: There is no such thing as an ignition on a diesel. Could it be glow plugs he was having trouble with?

 

[slice]

That's what I had before my Dodge was a 98 Tacoma that I bought new and drove for 100,000 miles. It had some issues here and there with the shocks, the steering colum, and the rear axle but other than that it was solid. It would have been hard for much to go wrong with it because there just wasn't much to the truck. The door panels were nothing more than cardboard with fabric stapled to them. IMO, those were the best Toyota trucks....Simple. You will start to see more problems with these newer trucks just because there's so much more to them in every aspect.

You guys are crazy if you think this new Tubdra is going to be as solid and reliable as a 1984 Toyota 4x4.

 

[slice]

Slice: There is no such thing as a Crewmax Longbed.

Nferra2: There is no such thing as an ignition on a diesel. Could it be glow plugs he was having trouble with?

Where did I say anything about a crew cab long bed?

 

[slice]

Dodges do not have glow plugs..

 

[THUNDERA]

I don't see Toyota offering massive incentives just to meet their 200,000/yr goal. They wouldn't stoop to the level of the other manufacturers just to push units at the cost of resale value and total profit. Maybe their goal isn't to sell 200,000 in 2007, but ramp up to that number over the next couple of years.

When the Tundra entered the market back at the end of '06 it was competitively priced. Soon after, the Big 3 manufacturers started rolling out huge discounts and incentives to keep the Tundra from stealing market share. It's obviously working, but at what cost? We all know that the Big 3 don't turn very big profits from their vehicles already, what's that saying about the company if they start making even less money on them?

IMHO, the Big 3 discounts and incentives are playing right into Toyota's court. The Big 3's overall profits, due to heavy discounting, will be less than they were than if Toyota never changed the Tundra, so if you look at market cap. it doesn't come down to units sold anymore, but total revenue. Big 3 profits stagnate, while Toyota profits continue to climb and that is what the share holders are looking at.

I say; Let the Big 3 lure people in by offering huge incentives and discounts up front ALL DAY LONG. I'll easily make up that difference in resale on the back end. The luxury of owning a Toyota.

 

[mxsjw]

I still say we will have to wait to see how the new Tundras are really doing as far as sales. End of May will be a better judge.

Not many crewmaxs on the lots yet and they should ramp up to by the end of April. I think alot of people are waiting to compare the DC and the Crewmax side by side and have simply not purchased yet due to the inability to do just that.

Also take into consideration alot of us didn't like what came to our regions and have order what we want. None of those sales are reported yet.

Toyota will do fine, I think there will be some sort of incentive on each of the models (already is on two of them). I don't see those incentives growing or changing much until the 08 is out or darn close to it.

 

[slice]

I don't see Toyota offering massive incentives just to meet their 200,000/yr goal. They wouldn't stoop to the level of the other manufacturers just to push units at the cost of resale value and total profit. Maybe their goal isn't to sell 200,000 in 2007, but ramp up to that number over the next couple of years.

When the Tundra entered the market back at the end of '06 it was competitively priced. Soon after, the Big 3 manufacturers started rolling out huge discounts and incentives to keep the Tundra from stealing market share. It's obviously working, but at what cost? We all know that the Big 3 don't turn very big profits from their vehicles already, what's that saying about the company if they start making even less money on them?

IMHO, the Big 3 discounts and incentives are playing right into Toyota's court. The Big 3's overall profits, due to heavy discounting, will be less than they were than if Toyota never changed the Tundra, so if you look at market cap. it doesn't come down to units sold anymore, but total revenue. Big 3 profits stagnate, while Toyota profits continue to climb and that is what the share holders are looking at.

I say; Let the Big 3 lure people in by offering huge incentives and discounts up front ALL DAY LONG. I'll easily make up that difference in resale on the back end. The luxury of owning a Toyota.

Sugar coat it however you want. Toyota needs to actually sell trucks to both A) make a profit and B) meet sales goals. They are not going to do either with Tundra's sitting on the lots for weeks on end while various creatures decide to make their home on what appears to be a secure object.

Toyota is out there to sell trucks. They DO care about the sales numbers and that's why you are starting to see them offer discounts on a truck that's only been out 6 weeks. They need to SELL trucks, as many as possible to make a profit. All this crap about resale will mean nothing if they can't move tnew trucks. Do you actually think Toyota is willing to sacrifice their profits and sit on trucks just so your resale value is higher?

 

[mxsjw]

Slice, you just don't get it.

We didn't like what came onto the lots in the first go round or we can't make up our minds without seeing and driving a Crewmax.

I, for one, ordered my Truck on Feb 10th, still have 2 weeks to go. There are 4 others at the same dealership who have the exact same configuration on order behind me. There were 3 before me. Now start thinking about all the different colors, configs and other dealers and we can increase this number exponetially.

May numbers and on will be the real numbers.

Not Feb, 2 weeks in, small inventories, little options, and no crewmax.
Not Mar, Better inventories, but able to order amost exactly what you want, and still no crewmax.
Not Apr, Finally have crewmax to dealers, but not enough in inventory to guage how sales will actually be.

If may numbers are in the toilet, they will be forced to introduce better incentives.

Mark my words, May numbers will not be in the toilet, they will likely make up for Feb, Mar, and Apr.

 

[THUNDERA]

Do you actually think Toyota is willing to sacrifice their profits and sit on trucks just so your resale value is higher?

Yep. It's called patience, which is a Toyota virtue. The Tundra is still really new. The word needs to saturate, and the self-advertisement effect will eventually set in. Until then, steadily growing sales along with keeping their prices steady will make up for a bit of a slow start. Let's not forget about the Crewmax either...

Yes they are going to have to offer incentives, but not the huge discounts we are seeing from the Big 3. I will be really surprised and disappointed if they do.

 

[slice]

Yep. It's called patience, which is a Toyota virtue. The Tundra is still really new. The word needs to saturate, and the self-advertisement effect will eventually set in. Until then, steadily growing sales along with keeping their prices steady will make up for a bit of a slow start. Let's not forget about the Crewmax either...

Yes they are going to have to offer incentives, but not the huge discounts we are seeing from the Big 3. I will be really surprised and disappointed if they do.

If that was the case, then why are they already doing it as opposed to just sitting back and waiting?