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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
For those of you who gave me crap about the tundra towing 15k, well, here's 20 bails of hay at 1,500lb EACH=30k+6,000lb trailer=36k lbs. REGISTERED!:cool: Just tooting the Cummins horn and trolling for you lol j/k..cool pic though huh?:tu:
 

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Congrads. You've proven a 1 ton dually diesel can out pull a 1/2 gasser. There's some earth shattering news right there for ya:rolleyes:
 

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For those of you who gave me crap about the tundra towing 15k, well, here's 20 bails of hay at 1,500lb EACH=30k+6,000lb trailer=36k lbs. REGISTERED!:cool: Just tooting the Cummins horn and trolling for you lol j/k..cool pic though huh?:tu:
First, I'm not impressed by a gross overload of any vehicle...unless it was successfully sustained for many thousands of miles over rough roads. Show me logs and photos of that truck/trailer/load being driven trouble free from New York City to Los Angeles and I'll be impressed.

Second, trolling of any kind will not be permitted on this forum. This is your one and only warning...post another troll on this forum and I'll ensure that a site infraction will be issued.

Third, this a forum for discussing towing issues pertaining to Toyotas...it's really quite irrelevant what you can or can not do with your Dodge.
 

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Played around with Dodge's website and I could get the towing capacity to only 15,250lbs for the same model of truck. That's a 230% overload of the factor specs. but it's the almight Cummins so it's okay :rolleyes:

Sorry, had to do it. I won't feed the troll anymore.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
This post was supposed to be in fun. If you can't have any fun..MODERATOR you are in the wrong business:td: I never did compare that load to what a Tundra could carry anyway, and yes it's overloaded.

USMC: Here's a little factual info on GVWR AND GCWR and how it pertains to total load of truck and total load of trailer.So if a GVWR of the truck is 12,200lbs {typical 2003+up Dodge Dually} and the GVWR of a particular trailer is 24950, then my GCWR for both is 37,150...then it's a legal load because you are not overloading either truck or trailor. That 12,200 is no more than what the truck and it's cargo aboard should weigh...and 24,950lbs. should be no more than what the trailer and it's cargo weigh.Did that website also mention what the GCVW should not exceed on the truck you looked up, I am curious.
 

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This post was supposed to be in fun. If you can't have any fun..MODERATOR you are in the wrong business:td: I never did compare that load to what a Tundra could carry anyway, and yes it's overloaded.
My role and business is to insure that all discussions on this forum follow all TS.COM site rules...and those rules explicitly prohibit any and all forms of baiting. I have no problem with fun or humor as long as it does not involve baiting in any way, shape or form. But equally importantly, the other forum moderator and I expect all discussions to be useful, factual, and without hyperbole. If you can not live with those guidelines, please go elsewhere.
USMC: Here's a little factual info on GVWR AND GCWR and how it pertains to total load of truck and total load of trailer.So if a GVWR of the truck is 12,200lbs {typical 2003+up Dodge Dually} and the GVWR of a particular trailer is 24950, then my GCWR for both is 37,150...then it's a legal load because you are not overloading either truck or trailor. That 12,200 is no more than what the truck and it's cargo aboard should weigh...and 24,950lbs. should be no more than what the trailer and it's cargo weigh.Did that website also mention what the GCVW should not exceed on the truck you looked up, I am curious.
Your understanding of Gross Combined Weight Rating (GCWR) is seriously incorrect. The GCWR is determined solely by the truck's manufacturer and is primarily dependent on frame/axle strength and, to a degree, on driveline torque and strength. It is the maximum allowed combined weight of the loaded truck and the loaded trailer. It is not determined by adding the GVWR of truck and trailer...if that were true, you could use a stock V6 powered Dodge Dakota to tow a 60,000 lb semi-trailer with no problems or legality issues as long as the GVWR of the Dakota and trailer weren't individually exceeded.

In the case of a Dodge Ram truck, Dodge's own website lists 24,000 lbs as the maximum GCWR for an '07 Dodge 3500 4X4 (when suitably equipped). Using the published curb weight of 6888 lbs for a 3500, the absolute max weight of trailer and its load that any 3500 should ever tow is 17112 lbs. If the truck is heavier than the published curb weight (very likely), then the max allowed trailer weight has to be reduced by same amount...in other words, adding 800 lbs of people/fuel/cargo to the truck reduces the max trailer weight by 800 lbs. Interestingly the GCWR remained the same regardless of whether the truck was configured with a 5.7L Gas V8 or the Cummins I6 HO...a strong indication that the GCWR of the 3500 series is limited by the frame/axles and not the drivetrain.

For the Ram 2500, Dodge's website shows the maximum GCWR as 20,000 lbs with the Cummins I6 (reduced to 17,000 lbs with the 5.7L gas engine). Using the published curb weight of 6121 lbs for a 2500, the absolute max weight of trailer and its load that any 2500 should ever tow is 13879 lbs.

Exceeding the manufacturer's GCWR for a tow vehicle, especially by thousands of pounds, is definitely illegal in most jurisdictions. Even if such an overweight rig were not caught (even impounded) when stopped for weighing, the owner/driver can be fined and perhaps jailed for "reckless endangerment to others" in many jurisdictions if the rig is involved in an accident. And finally, if a rig that grossly exceeds it's tow vehicle's GCWR causes injuries or property damage to others in an accident, then the attorneys for any victims will be in a great position to sue in civil court and win a massive monetary judgment from the owner of said rig.
 

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GCWR is the KEY when looking to haul/tow.

I had made a deal on a new RV years back based on those #'s.

When I got there to pick it up, walked in to the RV looked at the tag inside one of the interior doors, turned around and said, This ones out, what else ya got...

After I picked his jaw up off the floor I went and found what I needed...:tu:
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Exceeding the manufacturer's GCWR for a tow vehicle, especially by thousands of pounds, is definitely illegal in most jurisdictions. Even if such an overweight rig were not caught (even impounded) when stopped for weighing, the owner/driver can be fined and perhaps jailed for "reckless endangerment to others"
You forgot to mention, that in some states like California it IS Legal if the load is over a certain GCVW to haul it with a non-commerical Class A license and/or the vehicle is registered with the DMV commercially on paper to haul a certain GCVW.IE: Joe's Tractor Service who has an 07' dodge dually 4x4,30ft Big Tex gooseneck tandem-dualled wheeled axle trailer,and a Case Backhoe weighing 19,000lbs that rides on the back.
 

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You forgot to mention, that in some states like California it IS Legal if the load is over a certain GCVW to haul it with a non-commerical Class A license and/or the vehicle is registered with the DMV commercially on paper to haul a certain GCVW.IE: Joe's Tractor Service who has an 07' dodge dually 4x4,30ft Big Tex gooseneck tandem-dualled wheeled axle trailer,and a Case Backhoe weighing 19,000lbs that rides on the back.
You raise a good point...there are indeed numerous exceptions and exemptions...which vary widely by state....regarding GCWR limits for vehicles used in commercial operations and, particularly for farm/ranch operations. There are also numerous exceptions and exemptions regarding the need for a commercial driver's license for these various types of commercial/farm operations...for instance, most states exempt farm vehicle operators from their CDL requirements as long as the GCWR is below a certain level (which varies by state) and as long as the vehicle is operated within 150 miles (or some other specific difference)...and the operation complies with a number of other state specific rules.

That being said, the towing issues of interest to 99.99% of the people who visit this forum are those that pertain to recreational, or non-commercial/non-farm towing. And in that non-commercial context, there are few DMV or other state/federal exemptions for the legal and liability considerations associated with exceeding the manufacturer's GCWR for a given tow vehicle. The reason I used the word "most" in a previous post is that some jurisdictions (federal, state, local) could have exemptions for exceeding the GCWR in recreational towing situations...and some jurisdictions indeed may not treat exceeding the GCWR as a chargeable offense.

Nonetheless, even if a vehicle is exempted (for whatever reason) from complying with a manufacturer's GCWR and that vehicle is involved in an accident...even if it is not the cause of the accident...and if there is reason to believe that because the vehicle weighed more than the GCWR, severity of injury to other people & property increased, then the owner/driver of the overweight vehicle could still lose a civil suit and be required to pay a huge amount of money to those victims.

So even if the California DMV allows Joe's Tractor Service to operate a rig that exceeds the truck manufacturer's published GCWR, if that rig can't stop in the same distance that a similar rig that's at or below the GCWR could stop...and that rig rear ends a mini-van carrying a girl's soccer team that swerves into the rig's traffic lane and then stops suddenly in front of it, then Joe's Trucking Service is very likely to face a long and costly civil lawsuit that will very likely end with Joe's Trucking being assessed with a multi-million dollar civil penalty. In these rear-end-collision scenarios, there may or may not be a criminal charge but there will almost always be a resulting civil lawsuit if a contingency-fee type attorney feels that a jury will award victim compensation because poor judgment (e.g. exceeding a GCWR) on the part of the defendent exacerbated their injuries.

The bottom line is that staying at or below the manufacturer's GCWR is not only generally necessary from a legal standpoint (yes, there are exceptions/exemptions), but it also provides a substantial degree of liability protection from civil lawsuits.
 

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Cummnzpower - I am assuming you don't own any Toyota's and you don't seem to interested in owning a Toyota. So what brings you to a Toyota Website? Simply to troll? If so, why? Does it boost your confidence that a 1 ton dodge can tow more that a 1/2 ton Toyota? Why don't you compare the Tundra to trucks in it class. The 1/2 ton market is very competitive right now, and it really comes down to personal prefrence. Just for your information 0-60, 0-60 w/ 1200 lbs payload, 0-60 while towing 8500 lbs, 0-60-0 while towing 8500 lbs Tundra beats all 1/2 tons, just to name a few. I think your Dodge would be in trouble if and when Toyota goes after the 3/4 & 1 ton market. But I don't see why that is a bad thing for you, it just makes a more competitive market and Dodge will have to keep up. If you have any interest in Toyota's or interesting FACTS, then by all means fill us in. But if just want to give all of us your oppinion on why Dodge is better than Toyota, then stick to the Dodge forums.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Marrazito: Actually I came here a couple weeks ago to help educate certain Tundra owners who thought towing an unsafe load up a hill at 80mph was funny or cool..or macho..but it wasn't and they got owned once many other people other than myself showed up to back facts up.In fact i WOULD own the new 2007 i think it is Tacoma 4x4 in that new intense blue color{sport package}, lifted with wheels and tires.I saw one a few weeks ago that was pretty cool looking and wouldn't mind cruising in one.There's no arguement Toyota's reliability and reputation for longevity are beyond satisfactory.In fact most American vehicles have met or exceeded Toyota's standards just to keep the market happy and buyers buying.
 

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Although this topic is a bit off the path of toyotas it has been helpful in understanding basic towing principles. Thanks for your indepth explanation

msn
 

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Marrazito: Actually I came here a couple weeks ago to help educate certain Tundra owners who thought towing an unsafe load up a hill at 80mph was funny or cool..or macho..but it wasn't and they got owned once many other people other than myself showed up to back facts up.In fact i WOULD own the new 2007 i think it is Tacoma 4x4 in that new intense blue color{sport package}, lifted with wheels and tires.I saw one a few weeks ago that was pretty cool looking and wouldn't mind cruising in one.There's no arguement Toyota's reliability and reputation for longevity are beyond satisfactory.In fact most American vehicles have met or exceeded Toyota's standards just to keep the market happy and buyers buying.
You're kidding, right? This gets better and better. So you came over here to help "educate" certain Tundra owners who thought it was cool to tow an unsafe load at 80mph uphill. Re-read your first post, you are doing the exact same thing. You came back to "toot" the Cummins horns by showing a severely overloaded trailer in such a way as to make people think a 1 TON DUALLY DIESEL is a better, more macho truck than a 1/2 ton gasser. It is only after you got "owned" to use your words, by one of the towing forum moderators on TWO occassions that you have finally gotten off your Cummins soap box. Wasn't also you who insulted another moderator when they tried to keep the last thread you were involved in civil? Oh yeah, it was you.


MSN: Thank RockyMtnRay for the towing info., not Cummnzpowr.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
USMC:No one owned me son...the first post was supposed to be fun and educational not for some John Wayne attitude military guy to hijack my thread...pshhh your banished now!:devil:
 

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Marrazito: Actually I came here a couple weeks ago to help educate certain Tundra owners who thought towing an unsafe load up a hill at 80mph was funny or cool..or macho..but it wasn't and they got owned once many other people other than myself showed up to back facts up.In fact i WOULD own the new 2007 i think it is Tacoma 4x4 in that new intense blue color{sport package}, lifted with wheels and tires.I saw one a few weeks ago that was pretty cool looking and wouldn't mind cruising in one.There's no arguement Toyota's reliability and reputation for longevity are beyond satisfactory.In fact most American vehicles have met or exceeded Toyota's standards just to keep the market happy and buyers buying.
Like USMC said, your started this thread by posting a very overloaded Dodge. So who are you trying to kid when you say you are hear to "educate" people on safe towing procedures?

"There's no arguement Toyota's reliability and reputation for longevity are beyond satisfactory.In fact most American vehicles have met or exceeded Toyota's standards." You are right, there is no argurment for Toyota's reliability and reputation. But saying that most American vehicles have met or exceeded Toyota's reliabilty is wishful thinking. Pick up a consumer reports and look at the reliabilty of the American manufactures. True, they do realize it is a problem and they are working to meet the reliabilty of their imported competitors, but it will take time. And as far as reputation goes, reputation is not something that is changed over night.
 

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USMC:No one owned me son...the first post was supposed to be fun and educational not for some John Wayne attitude military guy to hijack my thread...pshhh your banished now!:devil:
Don't dis a US Soldier like that! After all, how American is that Cummnzpowr?
 

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USMC:No one owned me son...the first post was supposed to be fun and educational not for some John Wayne attitude military guy to hijack my thread...pshhh your banished now!:devil:
Need I remind you that RockyMtnRay had to spell out for you what GCWR meant? Forget it. I am not going to waste my time showing you just how wrong you are.
 

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i'm totalled scared..another MOD with a God complex...shoulda seen that coming.:rolleyes:
This post was supposed to be in fun. If you can't have any fun..MODERATOR you are in the wrong business:td:...
It is you, sir, who is in the wrong place with the wrong attitude.

My role and business is to insure that all discussions on this forum follow all TS.COM site rules...and those rules explicitly prohibit any and all forms of baiting. I have no problem with fun or humor as long as it does not involve baiting in any way, shape or form. But equally importantly, the other forum moderator and I expect all discussions to be useful, factual, and without hyperbole. If you can not live with those guidelines, please go elsewhere.
Could not have said it better. I let your posts in the other thread to continue because you were making an important safety point, but then you stepped over the line, earned an infraction, and we closed it down. It seems that you are itching to make it 2.

Follow the TS Forum Rules and we wont have to have this discussion again.
 
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