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Ford "Scorpion" whisperer...
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I'll say this once, DON'T USE A SHOCK COLLAR!
Why?
A few examples;
The dog runs after another dog and you "shock" it. Your dog now associates pain coming from other dogs. See, it's like this. In your dogs brain, it wants to play/chase the dog it has in it's sights.
Now you've shocked it and it will think the other dog is what caused the pain. PERIOD!

Example #2:
Your dog see's a kid on a bike. Your dog chases after the kid and you shock it. Now your dog thinks that kid caused the pain. Your dog will become aggressive towards kids/people.

See where I'm going?
Spend the money on a GOOD trainer and your dog will be fine.:tu:
Good luck.
I agree with flash over 100 %. Timber was a insecure dog as a puppy. He has dryed up very well. He was trained by reward. First with cookies and a hug and later only a hug. Always, yes always if he does something right he gets a hug. Even if he doesn't get a command "Here" and he walkes towards me i still say "Here" and gets rewarded when he's at my feet.

For Timber the command means reward.
 

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Generally agree with the gentle / reward approach. However correction is sometimes necessary - especially when safety is involved.

Shock collars and choke chains do wonders for correction in the hands of an knowledgeable owner. The payoff is that their use eventually is reduced to nothing.

A problem arises when the negative object of attention is more compelling to the dog than the reward - whatever that may be - and a command is ignored. It is then that correction must be made immediately and consistently.

These methods of training have be successfully used by experienced professional trainers for eons. While the shock collars are new, pinching an ear used to be in vogue as negative reinforcement and served the same function as the shock collar but was delayed and thus not as effective. And the pinching was intended to inflict pain rather than divert attention.
 

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"Rosco" Thread Derailer
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In Barney's case, the dog is not used for hunting. He's trying to teach the dog to obey in an environment where people and other dogs are present. Using a shock collar in this case is the wrong method to use. :td:
 

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Benny Hill
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Sorry, but I could never shock any of my pets. My Son on the other hand ................
 

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"Rosco" Thread Derailer
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Sorry, but I could never shock any of my pets. My Son on the other hand ................
Next time the GF is over, get some handcuffs, old nylons and a shock collar. A sturdy ceiling fan comes in handy too. :tu:
Make a pitcher of margaritas and let the fun begin.
 

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Don't argue with an insomniac.
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I'm very impressed with the dog knowledge you guys are putting out, Flash, Arthur, Gunner, GWD and especially Dinosaur, awesome advice. And very true. You want your dog to attend to you, want him or her to want to please you and work to figure out what it takes to make you happy. Collars are best reserved for safety issues as last resort.

Cheers, and Dino I'd have spread rep points if the system didn't shock me with the usual "correction".
 

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Discussion Starter #27
In Barney's case, the dog is not used for hunting. He's trying to teach the dog to obey in an environment where people and other dogs are present. Using a shock collar in this case is the wrong method to use. :td:
While I acknowledge you're statement, I'm not trying to prevent him from running up to people or other pets, but I don't want him to get out of my comfortable distance (let's say 30-40 feet depending on surroundings). I don't want him to jump on people, and I don't want him to jump on other dogs. I understand on the leash law, but at some point I have to have the dog trained to know that OUTSIDE I am still dominant - he understands this inside.

I use "Get 'em" as his speak command, and he comes to attention and will look for something to "get" as he barks, but he'll never actually attack. It's just a fancy way of saying speak and come to attention at the same time.

With all that said, he is a terrier.... terriers are known for their ability to be after the first bird that crosses his path. I do not want him to dart after a bird - say across the parking lot or what not.

Essentially, I want him to be trained to be off a leash when the need arises or if he slips off the collar.

As a matter of fact, my neighbor was taking care of him for me on Saturday and he slipped outside the door, and stood at the top of the hill about 10 feet away. She was just about cr*pping her pants, and she had to coax him back inside by saying "you want a treat????" I dunno how it worked because the last time I let Goliath off a leash was in an old baseball diamond. Guess what? He found one of the dugouts, ran into a street with me winded as all get out chasing behind him. I dove after him into the bushes and of course he slipped out of my arms reach only to stand in the middle of the street. Luckily I caught him but I was bleeding from like 3 places and even have a scar on my left side about 3" long from that dive.

That is what I want to avoid.

-rockstate
 

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There is no quick way to train... it takes time and patience. And, some days are better than others. Good Luck!

Thanks Dr. Frankenstein. :D
 

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Discussion Starter #29
Well guys, I bought a shock collar from Academy for about $172. Best investment (and by that, I mean most useful) I've made recently.

It has brought out Goliath's personality in a way it would have taken me a LONG time to bring out with him otherwise. In other words, I trust him to be off a leash now and can do things with him other than just take him on a walk. Being a college student, I don't have a fenced in yard at my disposal.

He is a brilliant dog and doesn't need any more than 3. I have had to shock him continuously for about 3 seconds on setting 4 so he wouldn't go bye-bye but that was the only time since I've had ht shock collar (2-3weeks about).

I can play fetch with him and I can take him to the pond. Yesterday we went to the pond for hte first time and I had to toss him in but since the bottom was so muddy he would get stuck trying to walk in there and therefore turn him off from getting into the water. Today, we went to a different pond that had a harder bottom and he thoroughly enjoyed it when he found out he could swim to the ball instead of trying to walk to it lol.

Here's a pic of him by the truck, and unfortunately the only time I thought of taking a pic of him with the ball in his mouth, my camera didn't load by the time he got out of hte pond.



-rockstate
 

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"Rosco" Thread Derailer
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Beautiful dog (friend) Barney.
Looking at him, he'll be faithful, loyal and a good companion.
Congrats to the both of you. :tu:
 

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Discussion Starter #31
Beautiful dog (friend) Barney.
Looking at him, he'll be faithful, loyal and a good companion.
Congrats to the both of you. :tu:
Thanks man. Rep points if I can.

He sure seems to be all of the above, but I have trouble trusting a furry friend I can't understand (hence the shock collar). For all I know, he could be fine without one, but why take the risk?

Anyway, hopefully we can get some training in! I need to work on "stay." I had to give him the sit command about 3 times to get him to take that picture haha. He moved from the brush guard to there by the time I could take it.

-rockstate
 

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Discussion Starter #32
Beautiful dog (friend) Barney.
Looking at him, he'll be faithful, loyal and a good companion.
Congrats to the both of you. :tu:
to finish what I was saying in the rep box.... it had a big impact on whether or not I bought one. however, I talked to the vet and he highly recommended one with a terrier such as him (especially after meeting him in person for a running bowel problem about a month prior.)

-rockstate
 

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The most entertaining part about dog behavior is pulling on ropes and growling.


The best part is, they don't even need training to do this. :pound:
 

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Discussion Starter #36
Doggies always brighten my day, yours also.

Playing with balls at the beach is always fun !!!!
You gotta be careful with playing pocket pool at the beach. Don't wanna pull out the pool stick by accident :D :devil:

Mr. C.,he did this the other day with a yellow lab.

Also, 2 people yesterday said he looked like a stuffed animal. I wonder if it's b/c I taught him how to "introduce himself" haha

-rockstate
 

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I use a Dogtra collar on my dog. It has a nice features like page (no electronic stim), nick (very short burst), and constant ( well you get the point.)

All of these are adjustable from 0-100. 1/2 mile range, waterproof.

works great, but you need to know what your doing with the training as well.

I got it from k9electronics.com if anyone wants to look.
 

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I had to resurrect this post since we took Blacky to the desert for the first time. He loves to chase cattle and that's a pretty big nono around here. Ranchers are perfectly justified in shooting dogs that chase their cattle. He stopped it only when a group faced him down, but he still tried it later. He's getting better, but I don't know if he'll be broken from it. I'm thinking about a dog training collar that you can dial in different levels of "training". I don't think he'd need ot longterm.
We ran into a medium sized rattlesnake as soon as we parked the truck. My son wanted to kill it, but you can't kill every rattler in the desert, so I let it go and hide. Blacky didn't seem interested in it. He also sucks as a dove retriever or finder but seems interested in quail. I got to thinking that we could have shot it and used it as a training aid. It also would have supplemented the food line with the 10 doves we ate in the desert.
 

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I had to resurrect this post since we took Blacky to the desert for the first time. He loves to chase cattle and that's a pretty big nono around here. Ranchers are perfectly justified in shooting dogs that chase their cattle. He stopped it only when a group faced him down, but he still tried it later. He's getting better, but I don't know if he'll be broken from it. I'm thinking about a dog training collar that you can dial in different levels of "training". I don't think he'd need ot longterm.
We ran into a medium sized rattlesnake as soon as we parked the truck. My son wanted to kill it, but you can't kill every rattler in the desert, so I let it go and hide. Blacky didn't seem interested in it. He also sucks as a dove retriever or finder but seems interested in quail. I got to thinking that we could have shot it and used it as a training aid. It also would have supplemented the food line with the 10 doves we ate in the desert.
Your dog must be trained to obey your commands. When the command is not followed then there must be consequences - immediate if possible.

An electronic training collar will accomplish this. But it must be used at home first and then ONLY when the dog ignores a known command. Then when you go hunting the collar should be on because the dog will know by the weight that it is a time to listen to his master. Then it must be used only when a command is given and not followed - be sure the dog heard the command.

As far as retrieving, there can be many reasons to not retrieve birds if at home he will retain a tennis ball or throwing dummy. A strange scent is one turn-off as is a mouth full of feathers. Throwing a favorite ball a few times and then tossing a dove carcass can work since dogs tend to be creatures of habit.

A dog retrieving a rattlesnake is not a good idea. He will approach live ones with the idea of retrieval.
 

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I hear there's also the collars that don't shock, but have that poking, pulsating feeling that doesn't induce actual pain. It just kind of causes that wierd sensation in the dog's neck that makes him stop what he's doing and pay attention to you. Surprisingly I learned about it at a 2 thousand dollar 2 week obedience school. Surprised me, as I figured if you're charging that amount you have a method to train my dog that doesn't involve a training aid I could use on my own.

Regardless... just remember that it's not a crutch for inability to control the animal or unwillingness to exercise that dog and get that excess energy out of them. IMHO the eventual goal should be to hardly ever actually need to use it. Heard of far too many situations where someone else's animal goes berserk and they shock them just to make them stop and leave it at that. No commands, no structured walks, the dog gets to do whatever it wants then gets reigned in with a shock.
 
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