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Ok so my Dad has a check engine light on his 04 Tundra and took it to the Dealer in Havasu. They told him both of his Cats and the bank 1 o2 sensor need to be replaced! 3000.00 bucks! Here is the work order to so you all can see what they said. Keep in mind he drove an hour away from home with no power problems or chugging, like cats do when they are bad. What do you guys think I should start with as far as parts???
 

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a new dealer or service location is my first guess! Thats ridiculous, ive always used a local garage and for anything out of warranty i still stand by the idea that a good family mechanic is the best way to go (pending he is big enough to have the proper equipment yet small enough not to take ya to the cleaners when doing repair work)
 

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That is about right for two new cats. I paid around $1600 for one cat. Something to bear in mind is that the Toyota Dealer will be using genuine Toyota parts and warranted labor - if something screws up that $k is on them not you. If you go somewhere else (or do it yourself) then the risk is yours.

Unfortunately cats are very expensive. Make absolutely certain the cats are bad before you replace them. You may be able to save money and upgrade to a set of long tube headers and cats but do the investigation and research to make sure you do not end up with something that will throw codes from here to the end of eternity.

Replace the O2 sensors (Denso and NOT Bosch and see what happens with the codes.
 

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Have the rear sensors replaced first. I got that code for years and it was the rear sensors. Before I replaced the cats I would get a smog test. In California we get it every 2 years and I threw that code and tested in the lowest 5% for emissions. You do need to reset the code and drive for a week to test ready in the OBD II . Get a scan gauge and you can read /reset codes and see if it is ready. What amazes me is how that code is generated by an O2 rear sensor that doesn't throw a code when it is giving false readings and they are going by what the sensor is reporting not actual emissions numbers. Like I said, I have seen this for 6 years with perfect emissions. Finally replaced the sensor when it needed to be reset almost daily.
 

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NO WAY IN HELL both cats are bad.

This dealer service scam really gets my fur up. It's monumental dishonesty bordering on outright fraud. This code is thrown by the downstream oxygen sensors and indicates, I'm guessing 90%+ of the time, that the sensors themselves are failing or there is a small exhaust leak (usually at the header/pipe flange).

1. Replace both rear units with the appropriate Denso component from sparkplugs.com or rockauto.com,
2. Either have someone with a ScanGauge, AutoZone, or your dealer clear the code, and see if that fixes it.

If it does clear the code condition (like I'd bet $$$ it will...), I'd go back to the dealer service manager and raise holy hell about their narrow-minded, self-serving diagnostic protocols.

Let us know how this comes out.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
I sure will, my Dad is almost 80 years old and I know they are trying to take him to the cleaners!
 

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How many miles are on the oxygen sensors and where does he fill up with gasoline?
I agree it seems kinda high on parts what is their hourly labor rate? 2004's are not supposed to be having these issues like the 2000-2003 did but seems these parts are now mileage rated replacement parts?:beatsme:
 

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The term crooked dealers use for their customers is to call them "Laydowns". Highly doubtful it needs cats, and if it does
do a quick google search and you'll see just how cheap they can be had for. Toyota's might be better and might not be but
for sure they are not 5X's better.
 

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Well, it could be that the check engine light is showing that the cats are not efficient anymore, but you can have all that work done for WAY less somewhere else. The dealer is going to charge a ton for factory cats. You can get aftermarket ones for WAY less.

Take it to a private exhaust shop and also shop around. Dealers are where you take the truck for warranty work, thats it. If you have to pay for it, you are better off somewhere else.
 

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hi, if you decide to change the cats. keep them! even bad.
here in florida, & i assume everywhere, a scrap yard will give you approx. 125 each for the cats.
toyota is 1 of the highest in 2 kinds of metal's.
but i would go high flow aftermarket.

get a 2nd opinion!
i would take it to another place.
do you or your dad or any family member know anyone that is a ASE mechanic?
take it there.
gorilla
 

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The converters went out on my 2004 with 65,000 miles, they were covered under warranty.

Federal Law requires that the ECU/PCM and Converters are warrantied for 8 years or 80,000 miles
 

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The converters went out on my 2004 with 65,000 miles, Did they do a actual emissions test. They replaced them to bill warantee work but I would bet that the reporting cels were triggered by the 02 sensors and the cats were fine. I have seen this done a ton under warantee because of the 0420 code and no one has actually had a emissions test done. The dealer said I had bad cats and I reset the code and had a California smog test and it was perfect.
 

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You could easily git one of those software/hardware computer based diagnostics setup...something like AutoTap (there's more but I can't think of them at the moment) to check out yer dad's Tundra. You can easily scan and log how well the O² sensors are doing. 30 day money back guarantee... ;)
 

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I don't have a firt gen tundra but have seen problems like this before.

Find an independent shop that can pull the O2 sensors and hook up a pressure gauge to the senso hole. Start the truck and rev it up if the pressure goes up then the convertors are fine. If the pressure goes down the one of the cats is bad.

We have had fleet trucks (and no they are not Toyota's) that pull cat effeciancey codes all the time and it is from the O2 sensors. GM uses a sensor that heats up and the heater will go out and casue the codes. O2 sonsors are way cheaper than cats and from what I have read on this site first gen tundras are prone to O2 sensor failure.

Good luck.
 

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...GM uses a sensor that heats up and the heater will go out and casue the codes.
So does Toyota and every other vehicle with a 3- or 4-wire sensor connection. They don't report voltage properly until they are heated to operating temperature, approximately 1500F.

O2 sonsors are way cheaper than cats and from what I have read on this site first gen tundras are prone to O2 sensor failure.
The sensors that Toyota installed in some 1-Gen Tundras had consistency problems, and that was a Nippon-Denso manufacturing issue with the heater element core. A TSB/service campaign was issued and the problem was addressed via replacement.

In other words, it isn't a problem endemic to the Tundra.
 

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The converters went out on my 2004 with 65,000 miles, Did they do a actual emissions test. They replaced them to bill warantee work but I would bet that the reporting cels were triggered by the 02 sensors and the cats were fine. I have seen this done a ton under warantee because of the 0420 code and no one has actually had a emissions test done. The dealer said I had bad cats and I reset the code and had a California smog test and it was perfect.
I work for the Arizona Department of Environmental Quality,

We oversee the Emission testing Here in Arizona so to answer your question

Yes I did the Emission Testing on it and NO it was not the o2 sensors.

I read the sensor with a scan tool before I took it to the dealer and it was with in specs, the o2 sensors are still original, now with 91,000 miles on them...

The bank 1 Cat failed at 65,000 miles.. dealer replaced wrong cat, had to order the other one so both were replaced a 65,000 even though only 1 failed.
 

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Yo,

I had the P0240 code for catalitic converter problem, as per the dealer it would be $2,000 to replace. After reading the posts here I ordered front and rear 02 sensors for $60 each from rockauto, borrowed a tool from Advanced Auto, and swaped them out myself.
The check engine light is gone as well as my faith in my dealer.
 
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