I own a 2003 Toyota Tundra TRD off road with 157,000 miles and I have noticed that the oil presure is low when at operating temp. and @ idle. When I say low I mean about 5 psi. I have put Slick 50 treatment in it because of the miles and hopping it helps the presure issue also. Are there any recomendations out there? Thanks JHH.
JHH
First of all, drain that Slick 50 crap out of there and put some Mobil 1 5W-30 back in. Then, stop worrying about the psi. If the needle is in the standard operating range (1/4 - 3/4 on the gauge), you're fine.
* * * Note that the oil pump is crank-driven so, as a result, oil pressure is RPM dependent. You'll see this on the dash gauge as about 1/4 indicated at idle and approximately 3/4 indicated at almost any throttle position.
* * * Note that the oil pump is crank-driven so, as a result, oil pressure is RPM dependent. You'll see this on the dash gauge as about 1/4 indicated at idle and approximately 3/4 indicated at almost any throttle position.
I wouldn't worry too much about idle oil pressure. I also live in a cold climate and don't run anything lighter than 10-30. The 5 weight and 0 weight oils are a mileage game as far as I can tell. They offer
nothing other than easier cold starting in frigid temps. But remember it is a polymer in a 5w oil that is causing it not to thin out as it heats. So in the end it is as thick as 30 weight at 212F. They don't tell you
what happens if your oil gets hotter than that. For me 10-30 in the winter and 30 in the summer. I wouldn't worry about the slick 50. It's more or less a teflon and your engine is somewhat coated now.
It wears or flushes out with time.
nothing other than easier cold starting in frigid temps. But remember it is a polymer in a 5w oil that is causing it not to thin out as it heats. So in the end it is as thick as 30 weight at 212F. They don't tell you
what happens if your oil gets hotter than that. For me 10-30 in the winter and 30 in the summer. I wouldn't worry about the slick 50. It's more or less a teflon and your engine is somewhat coated now.
It wears or flushes out with time.
Federal Trade Commission Charge Against Quaker State Slick-50
Your engine was designed to be lubricated by oil, not solid Teflon particles. In fact, you run the risk of Teflon-based products plugging small oil galleries in the engine.
Your engine was designed to be lubricated by oil, not solid Teflon particles. In fact, you run the risk of Teflon-based products plugging small oil galleries in the engine.
Why would you run a thicker than factory spec oil? That doesnt make any sense, especially given that you live in a cold climate.
You need to read up on multi viscosity and understand what it actually means. You'll think
long and hard before you run 5 wt as well. Viscosities are taken at 212 f. What happens
when your oil gets hotter from towing? I see my pressure drop to nothing at idle with 10-30
in it on a long trip down the I-15. I don't need it at less than nothing.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't all 30W oils (0W-30, 5W-30, 10W-30, et al) the same viscosity at 212F? It's my understanding that the winter-weight number reflects the ability of the oil, via the additive package, to flow easier at lower temperatures, and will not have an impact on high-temp operation...
I have read a lot on oil viscosities and multigrade oils, the 10 Motor Oil 101 chapters on www.bobistheoilguy.com and according to that article, Remmy is exactly right. 30 grade, 10w30, 5w30 and 0w30 all have the same viscosity at 212F(normal operating temp) and 302f(towing and racing), 10 and 3 respectively. It’s the viscosity when the engine oil is cool that makes the difference. 90% of engine wear happens during cold start up. A 0w30 oil is going to flow better, and warm to operating temp quicker to protect a dry engine at 30d ambient temp than 10w30 or 30 grade oil. 10w30 is 2.5 times thicker, and 30w is 6.25 times thicker than a 0w30 at cold start up. But all are the same viscosity at operating temp, 212f.
As an experiment, take a bottle of 30w and a bottle of 0w30 and let it sit outside overnight, and see which one pours better the next morning. That’s the only relative difference between the oil grades. The pourability, or flow, is what protects the engine at startup.
According to that article, no oil can be too thin at startup. Only oil that is already sitting in the pan at 212F can provide the most wear resistance.
EDIT:
And your PSI at hot idle is going to be the same no matter what type of Xw30 oil you use, because they are all the same viscosity at operating temp. It is at "nothing" as you say because it's designed to be that way. Johnny 5 says 4.3 psi. Thats barley noticable on the guage.
As an experiment, take a bottle of 30w and a bottle of 0w30 and let it sit outside overnight, and see which one pours better the next morning. That’s the only relative difference between the oil grades. The pourability, or flow, is what protects the engine at startup.
According to that article, no oil can be too thin at startup. Only oil that is already sitting in the pan at 212F can provide the most wear resistance.
EDIT:
And your PSI at hot idle is going to be the same no matter what type of Xw30 oil you use, because they are all the same viscosity at operating temp. It is at "nothing" as you say because it's designed to be that way. Johnny 5 says 4.3 psi. Thats barley noticable on the guage.
Bump the oil pressure by using a thicker oil. Looks like your engine or pump are tired.
Using a single quart of 10w40 or 15w40 with the rest of whatever oil you're using is an easy way to regain extra PSI.
The dash gauge is a joke. Get a real oil pressure gauge if you really want to know your oil pressure.
Viscosity is a 'range'. So, all the 30 weights fall into a 'range'. Many are thin to free up MPG or HP, and some will actually shear into a 20wt pretty quickly in use.
Using a thicker 30 weight(usually a high-mileage or euro oil) is an easy option, or simply step up to a 0w40 or 5w40.
For example:
Mobil1 ESP 5w30 = 12.1cst
Mobil1 HM 5w30 = 11.48cst
Mobil1 5w30 = 11.1cst
Mobil1 TS 5w30 = 10.9cst
Castrol Syntec 0w30= 12.1cst
Castrol Edge 5w30 =9.8cst
Mobil1 0w40 = 13.5cst
Mobil1 HM 10w40 = 14.71
Mobil1 TDT 5w40 = 14.5
At your next oil change(as there is no need to remove the slick50(does no good or bad)), pick a thicker oil or blend in a single quart of a thicker oil.
Using a single quart of 10w40 or 15w40 with the rest of whatever oil you're using is an easy way to regain extra PSI.
The dash gauge is a joke. Get a real oil pressure gauge if you really want to know your oil pressure.
Viscosity is a 'range'. So, all the 30 weights fall into a 'range'. Many are thin to free up MPG or HP, and some will actually shear into a 20wt pretty quickly in use.
Using a thicker 30 weight(usually a high-mileage or euro oil) is an easy option, or simply step up to a 0w40 or 5w40.
For example:
Mobil1 ESP 5w30 = 12.1cst
Mobil1 HM 5w30 = 11.48cst
Mobil1 5w30 = 11.1cst
Mobil1 TS 5w30 = 10.9cst
Castrol Syntec 0w30= 12.1cst
Castrol Edge 5w30 =9.8cst
Mobil1 0w40 = 13.5cst
Mobil1 HM 10w40 = 14.71
Mobil1 TDT 5w40 = 14.5
At your next oil change(as there is no need to remove the slick50(does no good or bad)), pick a thicker oil or blend in a single quart of a thicker oil.
Uh, what!?!?!! LOL!! Are you seriously addressing the OP's concern by diagnosing his engine and/or oil pump as 'tired'?? :td:
Do not mix different motor oil viscosities.
The 2UZFE is engineered to use an SAE30 weight oil, and can probably work just fine with a 20 weight synthetic. Your recommendation to the OP to load it with a 40 weight based on his question about oil pressure -- at best -- does a serious disservice to him. You make big assumptions about the OP's true situation, post up raw viscosity data, and then draw sweeping assertions about use. If he truly has a problem with low oil pressure, it is a mechanical issue. Throwing "thicker" oil at it as a solution is just plain idiotic.
^Agreed.
Sure, you may see more pressure on the guage, but thats because the pump has to work harder to pump the higher viscosity. And a higher viscosity means less flow.
Sure, you may see more pressure on the guage, but thats because the pump has to work harder to pump the higher viscosity. And a higher viscosity means less flow.
Are you for real? Wow. Add thicker oil to "bump" the pressure. Classic feel good response. Here is an idea; jam something in the oil galleries to block the flow - that is bound to boost oil pressure too. Do you turn the stereo up to drown out strange mechanical sounds? Can't hear it must be solved? Wow.
I agree that the gauge on the dash is not that accurate. Even so, my suspicion (and NO insult intended to the OP) is that the OP simply is not familiar with how the oil pressure gauge behaves and is probably seeing the needle at the one-quarter mark at idle and mistakenly thinks this is low.
Still, it is with morbid fascination that I watch you dispensing advice without determining first if the oil pressure is actually low. Never mind that your advice is absolute bunk.
Even my four year old son laughed at this one. "Tired?" Really? How does a piece of mechanical equipment get "tired?" I can see where this is going. Next you will tell us that the engine and the transmission are co-dependent and in need of Prozac. Prozac would be as effective at solving whatever problem might be there as putting thicker oil in the engine.
You need to stop. You do not have any business telling people what to do with their trucks.
Tired = excessive wear
What an engine is engineered for is BS. You can use any oil weight you want.
A thicker oil sure is cheaper than rebuilding an engine.
You guys are overly brainwashed by owners manuals written by English major tech writers. Pied piper followers with no ability to think freely or have a clue how something mechanical works.
What an engine is engineered for is BS. You can use any oil weight you want.
A thicker oil sure is cheaper than rebuilding an engine.
You guys are overly brainwashed by owners manuals written by English major tech writers. Pied piper followers with no ability to think freely or have a clue how something mechanical works.
So, by your reasoning, if someone's engine were really "tired" running 80-90 would be an acceptable alternative to a rebuild? I don't think so.
The irony is breathtaking. I agree with Lizard. If this is the extent of your contribution, you really have no business on a technical forum.
One of the most inane posts I've read in some time.
No , the oils are not the same viscosity at operating temp. 5 wt oil is 5 wt. The polymers
make it act thicker. I am not sold on the idea at all. Mobil took the zink out of mobil 1 about
10 years ago and caused a lot of dry start wear. Did they make it known? Did they tell you
when they fixed it?
You are correct for mineral-based oils, but you have it backwards for synthetics. Further, your statement that you run a straight 30 grade oil in the "summer" shows you are misunderstanding the concept of the so-called 'multi-grade' oils and/or are not understanding exactly how oil behaves in your engine at 75 F vs 212-320 F.
A 10W-30 dino oil is based on 10 grade stock. They remove as much of the impurities as possible and then add in viscosity index improvers (VII) to provide proper 'thickness' at operating temperature, while a 10W-30 full synthetic is chemically built as a 30 grade oil with molecular adhesion inhibiters that offset viscosity increases at lower temperatures.
In an engine, a 0W-30 and 10W-30 are the same viscosity at operating temperature, i.e. 212-305F. It is when they are cold that they act differently:
Oil type.......... Thickness at 75 F.....Thickness at 212 F
(measured in centiStokes)
Straight 30....... 250.........................10
10W-30............100.........................10
0W-30..............40 .........................10
Do you see that 250cS number with the 30 grade @ 75 F? That's what your dry, cold motor has to contend with at startup and up to 30 minutes after until it reaches operating temperature and 10cS. There's where all your wear comes from. Your engine oil is designed to run at 212 F @ 10cS from Alaska to Florida, regardless of outside temperatures.
Full synthetic motor oils do not require viscosity index improvers like dino oils do, and have a smaller average molecular size, so they could conceivably run forever. However, they do have additives that slowly wear out (albeit nowhere near as fast as the VIIs in dino oils) as they address combustion blow-by, etc.
Here's an interesting little bit of info: Did you know that a 75W-90 gear oil has the same viscosity as a 10W-40 engine oil at 212 F?
V=N/P η = viscosity
ρ = density
In SI units 1 cSt = 1 mm2/s.
Definition: One one-hundredth of a stokes, which is the unit of kinematic viscosity and is equal to the viscosity in poises divided by the density of the fluid in grams per cc.
Explain it all to us?
Then take a look at the chart at the bottom of this page. I run amsoil 10-30. It's Vi is better than any 5-30 except amsoils. Mobil 1 has very little difference between their two oils. And some syn. oils
to have polymers. Do you know which ones? It's old data, I would be happy to see any new data.
More Than You Ever Wanted to Know About Motor Oil
ρ = density
In SI units 1 cSt = 1 mm2/s.
Definition: One one-hundredth of a stokes, which is the unit of kinematic viscosity and is equal to the viscosity in poises divided by the density of the fluid in grams per cc.
Explain it all to us?
Then take a look at the chart at the bottom of this page. I run amsoil 10-30. It's Vi is better than any 5-30 except amsoils. Mobil 1 has very little difference between their two oils. And some syn. oils
to have polymers. Do you know which ones? It's old data, I would be happy to see any new data.
More Than You Ever Wanted to Know About Motor Oil
Other than trying to avoid answering my arguments, the point of your little formula is???
You stated that you run a straight 30 grade in "summer". I made a point about that choice that you haven't addressed yet.
Further, the data is from 1991 and the article is from 1999. It posts up a chart with irrelevant data that doesn't address either your or my argument(s). There has been significant changes in motor oils since.
You posted stuff you nor anyone here understands, so explain it. Don't try and turn it around on me. You also stated wear comes from thick oil. Totally wrong, wear comes from metal to metal contact for the most part. The thicker the oil the better the
protection. What thicker oil does require is more pressure to push it and more energy to push it, so I am in know way telling anyone to run heavy oils like 50 weights. I've managed to get by on about 6 cars
and nearly a million miles in my life. And only 2 of those were bought new. The rest were all 10 year old or better when I bought them. Never lost a motor, never wore out a motor or even burn't a valve in anything
but race cars. And I didn't have to answer why I run 30w in the summer. It's obvious, because it is 30w, 10-30 is not. I am not a fanatic about when I change it, if it's spring it gets 30 wt. If it's summer or fall it
gets 10-30. When it's cold (below 0 f.) we plug in. Thin oils are for the epa mileage game. Chevy ran atf in their s10 standard tranny's in the 80's/90's for awhile. Didn't work out so well. And putting thicker oil
could burn them up because there weren't clearances to pass the thicker oils everywhere. And I would love to see how 75 w is 30 w at 212. Since the oils viscosity is rated at 212 for oils. Do you have a link?
What significant changes?
protection. What thicker oil does require is more pressure to push it and more energy to push it, so I am in know way telling anyone to run heavy oils like 50 weights. I've managed to get by on about 6 cars
and nearly a million miles in my life. And only 2 of those were bought new. The rest were all 10 year old or better when I bought them. Never lost a motor, never wore out a motor or even burn't a valve in anything
but race cars. And I didn't have to answer why I run 30w in the summer. It's obvious, because it is 30w, 10-30 is not. I am not a fanatic about when I change it, if it's spring it gets 30 wt. If it's summer or fall it
gets 10-30. When it's cold (below 0 f.) we plug in. Thin oils are for the epa mileage game. Chevy ran atf in their s10 standard tranny's in the 80's/90's for awhile. Didn't work out so well. And putting thicker oil
could burn them up because there weren't clearances to pass the thicker oils everywhere. And I would love to see how 75 w is 30 w at 212. Since the oils viscosity is rated at 212 for oils. Do you have a link?
What significant changes?
How do you know what I do or do not understand? Are you really saying that no one else here understands the science behind motor oils? It's chemistry but it isn't overly complex. The problem is spending the time drilling down to get the relevant data so an apples-to-apples comparison can be made.
Your posting up of some mathematical formula and then asking me to decipher it was offbase and argumentative. However, I will state, for ease of understanding and as a frame of reference, that:
Water at 20 °C has a kinematic viscosity of about 1cS.
Does that help?
Uh, no I didn't. Reread what I said. It is well known that a significant portion of engine wear comes from startup when the oil is not at operating temperature nor optimal viscosity (10cS) as engineered by the overall oil volume, oil gallery diameters, pump volumetrics, etc. You are correct in that wear is metal-to-metal contact. Our (apparent) argument is what is causal to that wear.
Completely and blatantly false.
I agree with your assertions about thicker oil. I would add that clogged oil galleries, occluded filters, sludge buildup, and dirty oil all also increase pressures.
Your annecdotal evidence that you "never lost a motor" doesn't support any of your previous arguments. You can't prove a negative.
The only thing obvious is your misunderstanding of modern motor oil grade chemistry and your (and many others') confusion about the naming/numbering conventions on motor and gear oil containers. A straight 30 grade is as much a 30 grade oil as a 10W-30 at operating temperature. The difference is the source (base stocks, i.e. how they get there) and additive package formulation.
Here is a great piece on the differences of mineral vs synthetic oils, and compares the same weigh or grade of oils showing that the operating viscosities are the same whereas the startup viscosities vary.
That's my point my friend.
Engines are designed and optimized to run at operating temperature, which for motor oils, approaches 190-212F, and which correlates to 10cS on the viscosity scale. If your motor oil never cooled off, the outside temperature would be irrelevant when it comes to motor oil choice; a 30 grade oil would sustain 30 grade characteristics -- and lubricity -- whether you were in the middle of winter in Alaska or in Death Valley in summer. The issue is what happens when your motor oil cools down to 75 F ambient and you go out and turn the key. A straight 30 grade has a lot further to go (250cS--->10cS) to get to op temp than a 0W-30 (40cS--->10cS) and that correlates to wear, plain and simple.
If you are referring to multi-grade oils like a 0W-30, then that's your opinion, and I can respect that. However, I disagree that the intent of the automakers and engine designers in recommending a lower viscosity oil is simply related to fuel economics. Engines are designed and manufactured with far closer tolerances than ever before and that requires oils that can pass through these channels to keep these engines sufficiently cooled and lubricated. I think you'd agree with the assertion that a faster-flowing motor oil correlates to a cooler engine. :tu:
I didn't say a "...75 w is a 30 w at 212". I said that a 75W-90 gear oil shares the same viscosity of a 10W-40 motor oil at operating temperatures. This data is readily available in many places. This page on BITOG is just one. However, the link YOU posted above in support of your argument also has the info. Did you read it?
Here it is directly from your source. It is the first 'chart' on the page.
:tu::tu:
Again I'll repeat some more learned experience. When I drive south from Mt. it's 21 hours non-stop except for fuel. 18-19 puts me in Victorville. When I stop in St George my oil pressure is normal. When I get to
Victorville I show about zero pressure on the gauge.(at idle) 15 Trips or more, truck brand new until now, same thing. If 30 w in the summer nighttime through the desert and 10-30 in the winter won't hold up, no way am
I buying a 0-30 will hold up. It's 0 weight with additives, it's not 30 w oil. That's what you don't get. I'll give you one more. In the early 70's on the Pipeline Alyeska was running a red conoco in all the Cat equipment
as well as everything else. One year into the job (the Alaskan Pipeline) Cat told them to get the crap out of their machines or all warranties were void. Oil companies have been experimenting for years, you can
have at it. I'll stick with 45 years of building motors and driving that work fine for me.
And if you believe bob the oil guy so much put 0-40 in all your gear boxes, after all it's the same thickness.
We do all agree on one thing, oils main job is to carry heat from the parts. Thicker oil heats faster, therefore thins out fairly fast too. And bobs not correct when it comes to expansion rates of aluminum
pistons and cast iron cylinders. The aluminum expands must more rapidly and a much greater percentage of it's size. You can throw an aluminum bearing housing in the oven at 300 let it heat and
turn it over. The bearing will fall out, let it cool and you'll have to pound the new one in.
Victorville I show about zero pressure on the gauge.(at idle) 15 Trips or more, truck brand new until now, same thing. If 30 w in the summer nighttime through the desert and 10-30 in the winter won't hold up, no way am
I buying a 0-30 will hold up. It's 0 weight with additives, it's not 30 w oil. That's what you don't get. I'll give you one more. In the early 70's on the Pipeline Alyeska was running a red conoco in all the Cat equipment
as well as everything else. One year into the job (the Alaskan Pipeline) Cat told them to get the crap out of their machines or all warranties were void. Oil companies have been experimenting for years, you can
have at it. I'll stick with 45 years of building motors and driving that work fine for me.
And if you believe bob the oil guy so much put 0-40 in all your gear boxes, after all it's the same thickness.
We do all agree on one thing, oils main job is to carry heat from the parts. Thicker oil heats faster, therefore thins out fairly fast too. And bobs not correct when it comes to expansion rates of aluminum
pistons and cast iron cylinders. The aluminum expands must more rapidly and a much greater percentage of it's size. You can throw an aluminum bearing housing in the oven at 300 let it heat and
turn it over. The bearing will fall out, let it cool and you'll have to pound the new one in.
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