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Discussion Starter #1
Jim Towey: The Death Book for Veterans - WSJ.com
Yes, I know; "They would never do that here!"
Yet, here it is; The Death Book For Veterans
And what is in this book is in the "Health Care" plan being pushed through Congress right now...for you.
Is this what you want for you and your family?
 

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Jim Towey: The Death Book for Veterans - WSJ.com
Yes, I know; "They would never do that here!"
Yet, here it is; The Death Book For Veterans
And what is in this book is in the "Health Care" plan being pushed through Congress right now...for you.
Is this what you want for you and your family?
You know Shatto, I oppose Obama's health care plan but not because of this. Like I've said before, if we are realistic about containing health care costs, we have to look at end-of-life treatments. These cost are HUGE.

I don't think the gov't should be able to tell me that my life is not worth the cost. That should be up to the person. At the same time, they should NOT be able to tell me I can't go with dignity(kevorkian style, if I so choose).

And I find interesting that the ones opposing the right to die are the bible thumpers. If life after death is so great, then why the fuss? They believe suicide guarantee's you a one way ticket to he!!. I don't buy it. I was speaking to my wife (a more devout Christian than I) about this just yesterday, and she agreed we should be able to choose death. I think anyone that has spent time with the terminally ill would agree. Sure there are 'miracles', but let's face it, those are 1 in a million.

Having gone through this with grandparents, seeing them fight Cancer at the age of 76-80. I often asked myself why? For whom? It almost seemed that the children simply didn't want to lose their parents. But it's inevitable, it's natural. It almost seemed selfish to me. Maybe it's my age(37). But I honestly expect that if I am 75-80 and come down with a disease, I will choose quality of life(my remaining days) over simply prolonging my life for the sake of living longer. And I will tell my kids to stop prolonging the inevitable, because they are doing it for themselves, there own selfish reasons. If I've accepted death, there is peace.

/Mike
 

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Discussion Starter #3
You are right. We all should make our own choices.
That is not where we are going.
 

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And I find interesting that the ones opposing the right to die are the bible thumpers. If life after death is so great, then why the fuss? They believe suicide guarantee's you a one way ticket to he!!.
Mike:

I don't want this to get off on a long protracted tangent, but the so-called "bible thumpers'" position is that life was created by God, and only He can decide when it should end. And as such, life must be protected from conception until natural death. That is why they are against abortion, capital punishment, euthanasia, voluntary or assisted suicide, etc.

Like I said, I do not wish to debate the merits of this issue here; that is for another place at another time. I'm just trying to let you know where they are coming from. :)

Now, :focus:
 

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As a cancer and brain surgery patient in his fourth week of six weeks in radiation therapy, I will make several things clear:

- NEVER GIVE UP!
- Do accept that sometimes, the inevitable can happen during treatment i.e. health problems leading to another.
- Be sure to ask your doctor/nurse *ALL* the damn questions and ignore any bias they have.
- Take your medications as the doctors will track your blood level from time to time.
- Understand that not all doctors are very well versed in the area of treatment you are in and sometimes will act ignorant - if they do so, ask for another guy immediately.
- Know your rights as the patient. Its important to stay educated as much as you can about your situation/proceedings.

And finally:

- DO NOT ALLOW DEATH TO BE YOUR LAST JUDGEMENT NOR EXCUSE FOR AVOIDING the TREATMENT itself.

Sanosuke!
 

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As a cancer and brain surgery patient in his fourth week of six weeks in radiation therapy, I will make several things clear:

- NEVER GIVE UP!
- Do accept that sometimes, the inevitable can happen during treatment i.e. health problems leading to another.
- Be sure to ask your doctor/nurse *ALL* the damn questions and ignore any bias they have.
- Take your medications as the doctors will track your blood level from time to time.
- Understand that not all doctors are very well versed in the area of treatment you are in and sometimes will act ignorant - if they do so, ask for another guy immediately.
- Know your rights as the patient. Its important to stay educated as much as you can about your situation/proceedings.

And finally:

- DO NOT ALLOW DEATH TO BE YOUR LAST JUDGEMENT NOR EXCUSE FOR AVOIDING the TREATMENT itself.

Sanosuke!
Well said, points sent.
 

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Mike:

I don't want this to get off on a long protracted tangent, but the so-called "bible thumpers'" position is that life was created by God, and only He can decide when it should end. And as such, life must be protected from conception until natural death. That is why they are against abortion, capital punishment, euthanasia, voluntary or assisted suicide, etc.
Wouldn't unplugging the machine be a "natural" death, or rather the opposite of man-made life? Not only that, it's man-made supporting of life at HUGE expense to the system. You healthcare insurance premiums are rising because people are choosing to have vegatables plugged into machines keeping their bodies unnaturally sustained for years.

Mike makes a great point, if death is so great under the eyes of Christians, why work so hard to prevent death? Actually, reading the bible, Christians have no problem with abortion, capital punishment, euthanasia or genocide--as long as it's ordained by God. Moses and Joesph walked the Middle East for decades committing genocide on all of their neighbors. In Numbers, after defeating the Midianites, Moses instructs his soldiers to kill all of the male children (infanticide), women who have been with men (genocide, he doesn't tell them to spare the pregnant ones causing a de-facto abortion) and to take the young girls as theirs (pedofilia).

This all goes back to the basic premise that science explains the phenomena that gave religion it's power in man's infancy.

:focus:I might add a statement to the hypocrisy of Republicans who complained nary a word when the Republican congress and George W. Bush passed the 2003 Medicare reform which also included "end of life" counseling and funding, but are spreading mis-information about the same provision in the Democratic plan.
 

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Wouldn't unplugging the machine be a "natural" death, or rather the opposite of man-made life? Not only that, it's man-made supporting of life at HUGE expense to the system. You healthcare insurance premiums are rising because people are choosing to have vegatables plugged into machines keeping their bodies unnaturally sustained for years.

Mike makes a great point, if death is so great under the eyes of Christians, why work so hard to prevent death? Actually, reading the bible, Christians have no problem with abortion, capital punishment, euthanasia or genocide--as long as it's ordained by God. Moses and Joesph walked the Middle East for decades committing genocide on all of their neighbors. In Numbers, after defeating the Midianites, Moses instructs his soldiers to kill all of the male children (infanticide), women who have been with men (genocide, he doesn't tell them to spare the pregnant ones causing a de-facto abortion) and to take the young girls as theirs (pedofilia).

This all goes back to the basic premise that science explains the phenomena that gave religion it's power in man's infancy.

:focus:I might add a statement to the hypocrisy of Republicans who complained nary a word when the Republican congress and George W. Bush passed the 2003 Medicare reform which also included "end of life" counseling and funding, but are spreading mis-information about the same provision in the Democratic plan.
I could go on and continue to debate, but I won't. Like you said, :focus:
 
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