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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Why did you choose the new Tundra instead of the new 08 F-250 6.4L Diesel? :ts:

I was looking at getting one then changed my mind, I'm still on the fence though, since my Tundra is on order... :eek: :D

Thanks
 

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I guess the optional flame thrower was not a hit
 

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I'm not a former Powerstroke owner, but am a former diesel guy... '06 Cummins 5.9L.

I can tell you why I'm "planning" to get an '07 Tundra instead of diesel though.

#1 With EPA limitations on the new diesels, gas mileage is no longer much, if any, better than the 5.7L.
#2 For now and the past 2 years around here, diesel has been more pricey than regular gas.
#3 Daily driving is easier with a gasser, and more fun.
#4 I got tired of shutting off my diesel in the drive-thru lines.
#5 I don't need to tow more than 10K pounds, if even that.
#6 Stock Tundra with warranty = quick. Stock diesel with warranty = Not as quick. Modified diesel may be quicker, but the price you pay is possibly losing your warranty... as I did pushing a mere 100 lbs. more of torque, which most diesel folks will know that's weak compared to what you can push diesels, but it was enough to blow my injectors and ruin my warranty and take $7K out of my pocket. Live and learn.

The ONLY thing the diesel has going for it as far as my needs go, is:
#1 Resale value
#2 Long-term reliability. Diesels properly cared for can go 300K-400K miles or more.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
I'm not a former Powerstroke owner, but am a former diesel guy... '06 Cummins 5.9L.

I can tell you why I'm "planning" to get an '07 Tundra instead of diesel though.

#1 With EPA limitations on the new diesels, gas mileage is no longer much, if any, better than the 5.7L.
#2 For now and the past 2 years around here, diesel has been more pricey than regular gas.
#3 Daily driving is easier with a gasser, and more fun.
#4 I got tired of shutting off my diesel in the drive-thru lines.
#5 I don't need to tow more than 10K pounds, if even that.
#6 Stock Tundra with warranty = quick. Stock diesel with warranty = Not as quick. Modified diesel may be quicker, but the price you pay is possibly losing your warranty... as I did pushing a mere 100 lbs. more of torque, which most diesel folks will know that's weak compared to what you can push diesels, but it was enough to blow my injectors and ruin my warranty and take $7K out of my pocket. Live and learn.

The ONLY thing the diesel has going for it as far as my needs go, is:
#1 Resale value
#2 Long-term reliability. Diesels properly cared for can go 300K-400K miles or more.
Good points... :tu:
 

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Ford has not had a good track record with the Powerstroke engine at all when compared directly to its competition. I believe the Cummins is the most problem free engine of them all. I know Ford is tooling a new diesel engine in house to replace the powerstrokes so that says a lot right there.
 

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I had a 2003 F250 4x4 CrewCab FX4 with long bed before I bought my 07 Tundra 4x4 DC LB- here's why I sold the F250.

1. Little things started breaking at around 50K miles: 3 glowplugs, 1 starter (that left me stranded on the beach at Pismo with trailer connected), tranny O/D light would flash and act funny, oil leak. That stuff was expensive to replace and it caused me to lose confidence in the beast.

My '96 T100 went 130,000 miles without a single problem (not even a brake change!) before I sold it- so I just wasn't buying the "things just always break" mentality.

2. Fuel mileage wasn't as great as you'd think. For example: I tow a small (21' travel trailer- max weight loaded about 6k lbs) on long trips up the coast on I 5 here in Ca, hand calculated mileage was 11 mpg going no faster then 65 mph and 90% of the time 55 mph (cruise control set). With out the trailer mpg on the 5 going 65 mph, with cruise control set my mileage was NEVER better then 16mph. Believe me I wanted it to be better but it never approached those magical numbers you hear about. Cruising around town, the Ford devoured the fuel- you could almost watch the needle drop.

With the tundra I'm getting 15 around town and have gotten 16.8 on the only interstate cruise I took it on (up to Santa Barbara where a traffic sign hit my truck- another story completely). Even if I get 10mpg pulling my trailer, I figure I'm already ahead (although with the current gas prices being higher then the diesel, who really knows...)

3. I lost faith in the 4R100 tranny. I personally sat on the beach at Todos Santos and watched my friend in his brand new '03 F250 destroy his tranny trying to pull out of deep sand (had to tow it to La Paz and have a new tranny ordered and installed- a whole other story). To me, it was not if but when mine would go.

4. Had many friends with the F250 experience a wide variety of problems with basically new vehicles: Watched my brothers '03 (with 6.0 not 7.3) blow off a tube from the turbo and make his truck sound like a jet engine- truck was only 3 months old! Neighbors '03 had all electronics shorted out in a rainstorm and good friend's high pressure oil pump went out on his '05 after 2000 miles- I swear to you I'm not making this stuff up!

So when I started mentioning to my friends that I was thinking of selling my truck and a contractor offered me 25k for it I jumped at it.

I still think that the crew cab configuration of the F250 is one of the best looking, most comfortable (especially with bench seat- stretch your right leg all the way over) of the big 3 trucks to own- I just lost confidence in the dependability of mine.

I do miss that 36 gallon (+2 more in the neck) fuel tank though- these tundras need more range! In short, I needed a more reliable vehicle that better fit my needs.
 

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Just ordered a 07 DC Limited 4x4 yesterdat to replace my 250 Powerstroke. I loved the looks and ride of the Stroke, but hated,hated,hated the reliability of it. I have owned it for five years, put on 160k miles and think if I added up all the repair bills over that time, I would have doubled the price of the truck. I have always been a Buy American guy but I am tired of seeing my friends that have Hondas and Toyotas only putting in gas, changing oil, and routine servicing their vehicles, and getting 200k + with little or no problems, while mine sits for days in the shop regularly. Also just got rid of a Lincoln Aviator with 48k that had been in the shop 9 times and went with a Lexus. I'm done till the Detroit Three gets their s*%t together.
 

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The 6.0PSD was a great engine in its final 2 years. I would not trust the new 6.4. Ford is already considering pulling it for an in house diesel. The 250 PSD is in an entirely different league than the Tundra. I have or will have both, for different purposes.
 

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REALM hit the nail directly on the head. I am trading in my '05 F250, and frankly it has been a good truck. But, too many posts on 'the diesel stop.com' forum about turbos eating themselves and the head gasket lifting/coolant overflow thing.
I came from the 7.3 motor, to the 6.0 and waited until I thought all of the 'bugs' were worked out of the 6.0. But there are still problems being posted on web forums and such. And actually, one of my good freinds, and actually one of the guys who got me into Diesel Power originally, had his 6.0 in the shop (under warranty, thankfully) for the Head gasket/ overheating problem. He is very maintenance minded, and only had exhaust and a drop in air filter added. That is what did it for me. Like REALM, I have been running with a mild tune in my 6.0, and honestly, love driving with it, big torque is a blast! BUT, I keep waiting for the other shoe to drop, and frankly, I don't want to have it drop on my head! OR more to the point, my Wallet.
Like others have said, the benefits of Diesel are being cut into by rising fuel costs, ULSD (instantly knocked .5 mpg off my truck), I don't tow big loads, thus no real need for 650 ft/lbs of torque, 15quart oil changes, Fuel filter changes every other oil change, having to add fuel additives to compensate for the Ultra low sulphur diesel (less lubricity in this new blend, need to add stuff to every fuel fill). When I first got my 7.3 (back in the day) I got 15-17 mph all the time, and 19 if I was careful on the highway, plus the Diesel fuel cost about 20 cents or so less than the cheap gas. Now, the Diesel is as much as premium, or at least as much as the 87, and my fuel mileage on the 6.0l has been as low as 12.5, about 13.5 on average, and my best was just over 17, going 70 on the hwy, for 1 and only 1 trip.
In a nutshell, Toyota dependability. I may put a muffler on this truck, just to hear the nice sound of a throaty V-8, but other than that, she's staying stock, and I am presuming that I'll have a happy ownership experience with my 5.7 DC 4x4.
 

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I would echo the reliability problems with my 99 f250 superduty. The costs add up quickly. My plan was to drive it to 200k but maintencance costs to reach 90k have been out of sight. Check out intellichocie, they seem to sum it up well.
 

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I traded an 01' AC 4x4 Tundra on a new 02' F250 Lariat CC 4x4 PSD when I got married. I put in a superchip 90 hp mod and a K&N filter. The chip increased my mpg from 13 to 22 on the hwy. Oil changes were $84 at the ford dealer. The headliner and overhead console kept rattling and coming loose. 7 months of regret later I traded the Ford on an 03' Tundra AC 4x2. I ate $7K to break even on the deal. Kept that truck for awhile. Gas guzzler but a worry free Toyota. I now have the 07' DC 4x2 and it is a premo unit. No regrets at all. How many Toyota's do you see on the side of the road? Mostly GM's and Fords broken down here in Texas. You can expect 200k worry free miles from any Toyota or Honda. Change the oil, tranny service, STP fuel injector cleaner every oil change, and she will run and run. Toyota and Honda have the long standing reputation of making vehicles that out live their payments.
 

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Let's not forget the initial purchase price premium for a Diesel ($3000 - $6000 depending manufacturer and options) buys A LOT of gas over the life of the vehicle. My dad and brother swear by their Dodge CTDs and there are days when I really want one in a bad way, but I can justify the up front purchase price vs. current price of diesel and the ULSD mileage hit, not to mention I just don't need it.
 

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Hey, they fixed that, :D minor computer re-program...No biggy..It was cool though...:tu: :D
Yes now instead of shooting flames your engine shuts down and you get to pull over and wait for it to cool.

That'll be lots of fun going through the Rockies.
 

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Let's not forget the initial purchase price premium for a Diesel ($3000 - $6000 depending manufacturer and options) buys A LOT of gas over the life of the vehicle. My dad and brother swear by their Dodge CTDs and there are days when I really want one in a bad way, but I can justify the up front purchase price vs. current price of diesel and the ULSD mileage hit, not to mention I just don't need it.
I would not bring up price as a selling point. My dad and I both bought new King Ranch PSD 4x4 crew cabs 3/4 tons last spring. My dad had me get him a quote on a Tundra crew cab for many reasons that have already been mentioned, looks like he is going with another Super Duty becasue the price on the Tundra @ 1000.00 over invoice was close to 8,000 more than what we paid for our diesel King Ranch's last year. We both tend to order our trucks with every available option, so there were a few options on the Tundra that were not available last year on the Super duty trucks, but even if I back those out the Tundra was still 4 grand more. We paid 39k for trucks that had MSRPs well over 50k via my fleet program with ford. Toyta gave me a fleet number it was worth 500.00 dollars compaired to the Ford 5000.00 discount. Never the less You ahve to just want the Toyota, I have ran sever total ownership cost calculations, and there is just no way to justify the Toyota at there current prices. I like the trucks, but I don't like them that much neither did my dad.

Toyota is way out of line with the rest of the market, maybe not as much based on MSRP, but factor in the competitions rebate offeres, no matter what model of Tundra you look at it will have an intial net cost in the thousands higher then Ford, GM, or Dodge. Resale is better on a toyota in most all cases but not that much better.
 

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You can only tow one and a half Dodge Ram 2500 4x4 Cummins, but I can tow almost three Tundras!!!:D

If you don't do much towing and when you do tow you don't exceed 7k lbs or your payload of 1,500lbs then stick with the gasser.
 

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Let's not forget the initial purchase price premium for a Diesel ($3000 - $6000 depending manufacturer and options) buys A LOT of gas over the life of the vehicle. My dad and brother swear by their Dodge CTDs and there are days when I really want one in a bad way, but I can justify the up front purchase price vs. current price of diesel and the ULSD mileage hit, not to mention I just don't need it.

Check out the added price of getting the new generation diesels...every one is an additional $7 to $8k over gas. YOu better really NEED one.

I traded in a 2004 cummins for my dc. I loved the engine, but I had the long bed and got really tired of trying to park the beast. I did not need a heavy 3/4 ton for towing, I just wanted the diesel. I managed to get it to ride ok by putting 300 pounds of gravel in the back.

By the way, I averaged 17.3 miles per gallon with it, and now with my 4.7 my last tank was 17.3. I like that and the ride, turning radious MUCH improved.

The big added cost of these new generation diesels is going to change peoples buying habits. Guys like me will stay away simply because of the cost. However, I would be interested in a small, high mpg diesel in a 1/2 ton....
 

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I have owned just under 50 vehicles in my life time - my wife has a detailed list. That has included about 9 Toyotas and about 9 Fords. I have also managed 100's of fleet vehicles in my life time, mostly GM and Fords (trucks and cars).

On the very rare occasion I needed Toyota service the dealer and in one instance the company Toyota came thru 100%. Even complex issues are resolved very quickly, like a day or two at best.

Fords on the other hand, have left me stranded a lot of times (dozens of times), and my latest 2006 $52,000 SuperDuty actualy broke down in the dealers service drive with only 21,000 miles on it----one of Houston's Best Dealers told me the "bumper to bumper waranty" was not valid!...........it took three friggin months and "action" to make them fix it. It cost them about $3,500. It took hours and hours of my time to make them honor the waranty........something like that at Toyota is resolved in about 5 minutes.

You can rest assured that when Toyota makes me a vehicle with the payload and towing capacity (or better) then the SuperDuty......I will be among the first in line.

Having bought hundreds of vehicle fleet.........this whole issue of cost is completely meaningless. The cost of Toyota half tons is on par with the other half tons, within a $1,000.........considering you do not spend the better part of your life in the shop, and the resale is a zillion times better.........then of course Toyota does and continues to be best value and lowest cost of ownership. Chevy is real close in the half ton............but within 12-24 months that should change a lot, as Toyota begins to outpace Chevy in value.
 

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Why did you choose the new Tundra instead of the new 08 F-250 6.4L Diesel? :ts:

I was looking at getting one then changed my mind, I'm still on the fence though, since my Tundra is on order... :eek: :D

Thanks
To answer your question specfically: What payload and towing capacity do you need?

If you need the 2,400lb payload and the 12,500 conventional towing of the SuperDuty..........then purchase an 2007 Super Duty. Do not purchase the 2008; it is NOT ready for prime time; too much bad engineering that will cost you dearly.

If you need something with a max payload of 1,500lb and 10,000lb conventional towing then the Tundra is the one to get.

If you feel you must have a diesel with the up to date DPF system then go for the GM products. They actualy tested 60,000 trucks in Japan for TWO years, in REAL world conditions; not the mock testing Ford did, or the silly north pole test.
 
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