[RipplingHurst]

So of course you can avoid the worst if you're stuck with an WOT if you immediately shift into neutral, right? That was my first thought when I heard about the CHP officer who got himself, wife and kids killed while getting stuck at WOT to 120mph while driving a loaned Lexus ES300.

Why didn't he put the car into neutral? Was he a motorcycle officer, clueless about (among other things) cars? Was the car in auto/sport/manual mode (whatever it's called), where you change gears up and down (instead of Neutral/Drive) and he didn't know because he was unfamiliar with the car?

Just shift into neutral, what could go wrong? That's the conclusion of Car&Driver too (Shift into Neutral, Dummy: The Toyota Recall Fiasco), but I was curious if there's something that could prevent to engage neutral. So I start doing some testing today.



I was simulating the pedal getting stuck wide open in a deserted road, below speed limits, then I practiced findind neutral quickly without looking - in a panic situation not always is advisable to look to shift to neutral, plus you may be in traffic/pedestrians in the way.

It's usually very easy if it's in Drive. Just a nudge to the top, bang, you're in neutral.

Surprisingly, it can be "hard" if it gets stuck while upshifting in "sport mode", lever at far left and top (+). As soon as you go from (+ = change up semi auto mode) to no change, then Drive (to then go neutral), when it reaches Drive the lever gets stuck in there for a split second, enough for the computer to change up a gear (since you're WOT all the way) and the car surges forward very fast, you have to look back to see where you're going, but then up a nudge and you're in neutral again (and the engine revs all the way to the redline @7000).

Apparently there's no computer issue preventing you from changing to neutral with the throttle Wide open (WOT). That's what I wanted to find out.

So in the course of testing, I find myself in the following WTF!? situation:

LOL. Check the speedometer the gear lever and, more tellingly, the rear camera view display!

What happens is that the car in is neutral, only everything else thinks it's in reverse. After some testing I found out that as soon as the speeds go down to walking pace, the reverse engages and then you actually go backwards.

Moral of the story: if you find yourself with the throttle stuck wide open, just shift to neutral. Don't need to look. Just go all the way to the top and right. You'll get there eventually. You'll live. That was my conclusion at least.

I searched the manual everywhere and didn't find any info on this. I think Car&Driver should do some tests on all recalled Toyota and Lexus vehicles and verify how easy it is to shift to neutral.



Now it might be true that you can't shift to neutral when both WOT + @redline. I couldn't find a place to safely test that at sane speeds. I suppose you got to put into manual mode (to prevent D mode changing up to 6th 120mph until you reach redline), 2nd gear, WOT, wait until you redline at around 65mph, than shift to neutral. I can't see why not, but I've heard somewhere you can't.

I can't see why this could damage the transmission in any way (hence no need for an electronic safety measure). Any engineer with input on all this?

 

[Manoah]

very informative post. thanks!

 

[RobertT3]

:tu:^^^^Ditto!!!!^^^^^

 

[sequoia4runner]

I wrote an article in Wordpress about cars and cell phones that some might find interesting, some may not, haha! Johninflorida’s Weblog

The title is "Casey, cell phones, people in general cell phones". To me it is more than what needs to be done in an emergency, it is actually applying common sense at the time which some seem not to be able to do. Scroll down the page to "A Christmas Present For all" and you will find parodies that I have done on the Casey Anthony case, some may enjoy them, some may not, haha, again!
http://johninflorida.wordpress.com/2010/02/03/casey-cell-phones-people-in-general-cell-phones/

 

[Barney_Fife]

post up your vin so people who might be interested in a used sequoia down the line dont buy yours since u are putting it in reverse at 40mph.

 

[spenser24]

Casey Anthony :blah::blah::blah::focus:

 

[Barney_Fife]

just saying i think its funny he's saying he is testing shifting to neutral but he's not actually doin that. he's shifting into reverse.

 

[RipplingHurst]

just saying i think its funny he's saying he is testing shifting to neutral but he's not actually doin that. he's shifting into reverse.

post up your vin so people who might be interested in a used sequoia down the line dont buy yours since u are putting it in reverse at 40mph.

Oh, so I'm in reverse now? Yeah, the truck is ruined.

Do you actually think the truck can get to 40mph in reverse ? It's not in Reverse, it's in neutral, but you'd only know that if you had read the f*ing post. Maybe your truck does not have sport shift mode, or you never heard about such feature before. Not my problem.


In panic situations you don't need to fear getting into reverse, *because it won't*. Just go all the way to the top and right, if you're in manual/sport shift mode. Thanks to me, you can know that. Or perhaps not.

 

[Barney_Fife]

Oh, so I'm in reverse now? Yeah, the truck is ruined.

Do you actually think the truck can get to 40mph in reverse ? It's not in Reverse, it's in neutral, but you'd only know that if you had read the f*ing post. Maybe your truck does not have sport shift mode, or you never heard about such feature before. Not my problem.


In panic situations you don't need to fear getting into reverse, *because it won't*. Just go all the way to the top and right, if you're in manual/sport shift mode. Thanks to me, you can know that. Or perhaps not.

no silly...the gear shift is in reverse its in the picture. and yes, we all have the same shifter. neutral is the one below the big orange brigthly colored R...thats why the backup cam etc is on..haha something thankfully is idiot proof in the truck not allowing the actual tranny to engage in reverse like you said till you slow down...but it is in fact in reverse....not neutral. if you wanted to show u can go to neutral u should have stopped at neutral and not gone all the way into reverse...

 

[Barney_Fife]

but yes, its common sense to shift into neutral if u find yourself in that situation.... i like teh car and driver article...just wish the people with less common sense out there can figure out what to do as well...but still dont think shovin the truck into reverse at 40mph is a good idea...even if it wont engage till walking pace...u still shouldnt go into reverse while moving foward.....but whatever. its your truck not mine.

 

[RipplingHurst]

I know...I should respect the truck more perhaps, if that's your point.

But I was concerned my wife, who drives the Sequoia a lot, could perhaps not find Neutral that easy and hit Reverse instead, and she was indeed concerned when we practice that later about getting into reverse and something unpredictable happen - thats when I told her about it (you should see her look...lol). But she is relieved I know for sure.

Maybe the engine would turn itself off. Maybe the steering could lock, and lose brake assist as a consequence. The transmission could seize blocking the rear wheels and the car would spin and turn over - that would make hitting another car in the back a better alternative, if the pedal got stuck, for instance. Doubt it but you gotta know in advance what could happen in a semi-controlled environment with myself only in the truck in a deserted road - remember the police officer who died could have tried to shift to neutral and couldn't we don't know yet.

So I find that was reason enough to test everything that could go wrong, safety first.

 

[Barney_Fife]

well glad it makes u rest easy i'd be afraid to do that to my own hahah ive shoved crown vics and impalas into park and reverse for various reasons before at work...usually they just make all sorts of noises...but then again they are the old linkage type of connections and dont do teh whole "computer may i" crap....if u hit reverse and dont gun it, they will just stall in the crown vics...if u hit park it just clicks till u slow down enough for it to grab. if you hit reverse and punch it then it'll make all sorts of tire smoke as you are racing backwards away from whatever just got your attention enough to do that....and yes, u can do 40mph in reverse. at least in a car..i'd assume the seq or tudnra would too....

 

[RipplingHurst]

I never thought about doing that to my Infiniti, and won't do it, but you know, police officers were dying driving Toyotas, so that made me think for myself and get my own conclusions, rather than leaving my fate depend on what says some clown on tv or whatever.

Now was there a recall in place for the impala or the crown vics too?

I can't say I feel much for them though...

 

[Tundradrenalin]

Never tried this on the Gen1. But the shifter is on the column, so I'm not sure this would have the same end results. Thanks for posting your experiment.

 

[spenser24]

Andy, On behalf of all Gen 1ers, we anoint you as the official Guinea Pig for this test

 

[sandforblood]

Im laughing because in our cia driving class J turns are standard
Thats full R to full D whilst controlled spinning tires. evasive driving 101. thats R to D tho

 

[ggemigniani]

In "S" mode, pushing the shift lever forward (toward N) does not put the vehicle in Neutral and that's probably why the officer couldn't stop. And if the officer pulled the lever backward to select a lower gear range, the electronic transmission refused go into a lower gear range at high road speeds. And if the officer tried to turn the motor off, he couldn't unless he had read the 550 page owners manual to find the one sentence where it explains the START/STOP button must be pushed in and held depressed for 3 long seconds before the engine will shut off.

 

[RipplingHurst]

Im laughing because in our cia driving class J turns are standard
Thats full R to full D whilst controlled spinning tires. evasive driving 101. thats R to D tho

Hummm and you did that on Sequoias?

Evasive 101 class should also teach not to chose a 6000Lb truck if you have a job that needs evasive procedures. A BMW comes to mind.

Now I'm laughing...:laughing3d:

 

[DevinSixtySeven]

In "S" mode, pushing the shift lever forward (toward N) does not put the vehicle in Neutral and that's probably why the officer couldn't stop. And if the officer pulled the lever backward to select a lower gear range, the electronic transmission refused go into a lower gear range at high road speeds. And if the officer tried to turn the motor off, he couldn't unless he had read the 550 page owners manual to find the one sentence where it explains the START/STOP button must be pushed in and held depressed for 3 long seconds before the engine will shut off.

All that nonsense sounds like a huge pain in the ***. Sounds like that car needs a kill switch.

On a different recall thread, the user "music" pointed out that the 2nd-gen Tundras have a completely computer controlled transmission, so you can put the shifter wherever you like, and the computer will decide when it will shift and what gear it will choose. Your Sequoias are probably built the same way...so it is certainly possible that you can be doing 40mph in a forward gear with the shifter in R.

My 1st-gen Tundra is a little different, if its behavior in the dirt is any evidence.

-Sean

 

[RipplingHurst]

About the kill switch. On the Infinitis, you can turn it off pressing and hold the IGN button for 2.5 sec (3.5sec for the Toyotas) or you can just press the button 3 times in rapid succession (exactly what could happen in panic mode).

The problem with computer is that they don't allow downshift when in top gear. So if you're gas is stuck when in 5th/6th, and then you reach the redline, there's no way to engage any lower gear, be it in sport mode or not. Speeds can rise too quickly in traffic, and that certainly doesn't help one to think clearly.