[TunTac]

Okay, I was a bit apprehensive about posting this 'cause I've always felt like I knew what I was doing when negotiating a car deal, but now I feel betrayed and I'm really beating myself up over something I just found out. I need to vent, so feel free to chime in if you think I'm overreacting?

Here's the low-down...

I bought my Tacoma (details in my sig) earlier this month for $100 over invoice. I traded in my '05 Tundra 2wd TRD OFF RD, LSD, TOW pkg etc. They wanted to give me $16,600, but I got 'em up to $17,600. I flip cars often and never put money down 'cause they're just a means of transportation for me so I budget for a monthly payment.

Anyway, I've been on the bureau for 12+ years (I'm 30) and have established excellent credit (FICO 800+).

Now here's my dilemma, I totally realize that dealers make money one of three ways (New Vehicle, Trade, and/or Financing). Hell, I worked in the car biz for awhile, not long, but long enough to understand how things operate.

I was fine with the new vehicle price, okay with the trade value, but when they talked to me about financing, they quoted me a rate that was neealry 2% points higer than what I was expecting. I'm was not a member of a credit union, but I was always able to get good rates through big lenders like Wells and CapOne. When I walked into the dealership, I planned on leasing to bury my negative equity (about $4k), but then they gave me an option for an 84mo. purchase. I knew they existed, but I'd never researched rates longer than 72 mo. I really like the Taco and planned on keeping it for awhile so I decided to take the deal knowing that I could just double my payments, but at the same time, have that option to pay the base mo. payment if money became tight one month.

When they came out and showed me the rate, I told him politely that with my credit, that rate was ludicrous (8.5%/84mo.) He claimed that he was at rock bottom and that was his buy rate? I was okay with where the payment fell, but I deserved the published rate @ 6.5%/84mo. (stupid me didn't ask to see it).

Last night I'm in the finance department monitoring a deal for my father, and the finance manager writes up an option contract for him, since he has his own financing. Just out of curiosty, I questioned the rate, and it was 6% for 60 mo. and 6.5% for 72mo and even 84mo. My eyebrows raised as I heard the 84 mo. rate since I had purchased my truck earlier this month and did an 84mo term, but received 7.95%!!! They lowered it from 8.5% 'cause they made a mistake on the original contract with my trade value and claimed they'd make it up by lowering my rate...wow!...7.95%, they still had 1.5% to give as I soon found out.

After we completed my dad's deal, I chatted with the finance guy and he told me that I should refinance. I'd never gone 84 mo. before and since 72mo. rates were in the 6's, I got lazy and just assumed that 1% or so higher was okay for 84 mo. Stupid me!!!

Anyway, this guy said that with my credit being 800+, they should have never tried to hit me for that rate. You know why I got lazy and became trustful?? Because I was working with a guy who I've known for awhile and thought he'd never screw me. I research and do my homework when making deals for others, but I guess I let my guard down as I put my faith in someone else. Oh, I'm kicking myself!!!

So today, I became a member of another CU and got approved for my refinance @ 6.49% and will probably get another .25% off tht for the automatic payment option.. The thing that pisses me off is that the Toyota dealership claimed that there was only one bank that would take my deal @ 84 mo., and it just happened to be a CU, so again I assumed that 84 mo. financing was not popular and that 7.95% was truly the best rate. Now I come to find out that tons of CU's go 84 mo. and the rates are anywhere from 1-1.75% lower. In fact, the CU my loan is currently through published their rate @ 6.49% too!!!

Again, I'm not against somebdy making some profit, but they made $100 + holdback on the front end, I saw they retailed my truck for nearly $22k, so say they split the difference and make $2000 on the next owner, plus now I find out that I'm damn near 2% points high on the rate!!! Besides that, if the publishe rate was 6.49%, doesn't the dealer still have a lower buy rate???

When I called for a payoff today, the CU asked why I wanted to pay it off, and I told them how they jacked me on the rate. The lady was speechless when I told her my FICO and what my current rate was through them!!!

I don't know who to be mad at, the CU or my "suppossed" friend who told me originally that 7.95% was as low as he could go 'cause they were at their "buy rate???" Should I be mad at myself 'cause I was unfamiliar with 84mo. financing rates??

Because I once worked in the business and realize how important those CSI scores are, I told them that I'd give them 100%, but now I really feel like I got screwed and as much as I'm not an eye-for-an-eye kinda' person, should I ding 'em on the survey, or maybe just not even fill it out? I even wrote a letter to the GM to give "my friend" and some other sales people kudos (before I found out about the rate hike, of course), but now I feel like a complete idiot and feel like my credibility for making smart car deals for anyone else is shot.

Thanks for listening all, I just needed to get it out!!!

I'd love some feedback.

 

[xedge]

I can't answer whether you should be upset or not for you. In my experience, whenever I go to buy a big ticket item, I go in either with cash in my pocket or my financing all lined up. Its doesn't work for me to approach it any other way. Done this for my cars, trucks, & toys. Putting finances and faith in a dealership is an oxymoron. Their business is to sell stuff & make largest margin of profit. Bummer this happened to you & it sounds like your business acquaintance took advantage. I've learned that lesson before. Look at it this way, you've gained some valuable knowledge & have taken steps to turn it. Hope all works out in the end & remember you reap what you sow. Karma has a way of coming around in the end. Enjoy your new truck! :tu:

 

[bugchucker]

All we can do is learn form our mistakes and vow not to repeat them.

 

[BaBalouie1958]

I made the same mistake myself, I bought a Honda Civic for my daughter and paid sticker price just so he could make his commission. I would never do that again I learned my lesson. I would say your friend put his pocket first before your friendship. I understand making a living , but he should've been more honest with you about what the requirements of his job are and what the Dealer expects from him. Its your call but for me I would be done with the guy!:td:

 

[MikeB 30]

If I were you I'd walk back in there and punch your friend in the head. He knew what the deal was, if he says he didn't he's full of it. I'm assuming you'll never buy so much as a toaster from this "friend" again?

 

[SFTundraMan]

I have no clue if your friend knows or doesnt know what he did. But in all honestly, the average sales man wouldnt have a clue what buy rate was or wasnt through that bank. Now if he was at any level of management, HE KNEW FOR SURE

 

[SFTundraMan]

Quick Question, You Asked Me 182 Questions Before You Bought This Truck, How Did You Forget To Ask Me About This?

 

[toyotaguybubba]

i just have a question, when i go to get my new tundra can i call on you for advice? you sound like you know your way around finnancing(for other people anyway)!i'll give you all the info i can.

 

[SFTundraMan]

i just have a question, when i go to get my new tundra can i call on you for advice? you sound like you know your way around finnancing(for other people anyway)!i'll give you all the info i can.

hasnt stop anyone else from asking, I have helped have of the salesman in the country sell their trucks. They should be kicking me down some commission, lmao

 

[TunTac]

Quick Question, You Asked Me 182 Questions Before You Bought This Truck, How Did You Forget To Ask Me About This?

I was initially planning on leasing to bury the previous negative equity on my Tundra, but the money factor just wasn't there to make the deal fly. He kinda' nonchalantly (sp?) mentioned an 84 mo. term, which I never would have considered and thus never researched the rates. I have never banked with a credit union before either, but I had a 72 mo. approval from Wells Fargo @ 6.59% (at the time) and when he came back with the 84 mo. rate, he claimed there was only one bank that would take the deal yada, yada, yada...

Bottom line, I got suckered by seeing that lower payment, even at 7.95%, but still with my excellent credit (800+), that credit union that funded my deal had published 84 mo. rates at 6.25%. I deserved that rate, but in any other case, I'd blame myself 'cause I know dealers alway try and hit you for rate, especially on a skinny front-end deal, but both of my friends were in high positions; one was a desk manager, and the other....THE FINANCE DIRECTOR!!!

My point is this...had I have been working with a dealer I didn't know, I'd have been much more firm and probably thought the deal over in much greater depth, and if I would have taken the deal knowing that the rate was high, I'd have simply just blamed myself for being too hasty, and chalked it up to..."a lesson learned." However, the desk manager's son and me played ball together in high-school and college, and the finance director has been a patron of my restaurant for 12 years!!!

This is a high volume dealership, and they're gonna make a boatload of money on my trade since it's waaaaay clean. let me find it and I'll post the link. Anybody who wants to buy it, contact me first and I'll tell you how much they took it in for so you can lowball 'em.

I still don't know, what should I do about the survey? Send it in or not???

 

[TunTac]

i just have a question, when i go to get my new tundra can i call on you for advice? you sound like you know your way around finnancing(for other people anyway)!i'll give you all the info i can.

Was that question for me or for SFtundraman? Believe me, I'm very knowledgable about structuring a deal, but I got too trustworthy on this one. See what happens for being a nice guy!!!

Hey, at least I admitted that I'm human instead of trying to act like I can do no wrong eh?

Thanks for all the responses so far.

 

[SFTundraMan]

I was initially planning on leasing to bury the previous negative equity on my Tundra, but the money factor just wasn't there to make the deal fly. He kinda' nonchalantly (sp?) mentioned an 84 mo. term, which I never would have considered and thus never researched the rates. I have never banked with a credit union before either, but I had a 72 mo. approval from Wells Fargo @ 6.59% (at the time) and when he came back with the 84 mo. rate, he claimed there was only one bank that would take the deal yada, yada, yada...

Bottom line, I got suckered by seeing that lower payment, even at 7.95%, but still with my excellent credit (800+), that credit union that funded my deal had published 84 mo. rates at 6.25%. I deserved that rate, but in any other case, I'd blame myself 'cause I know dealers alway try and hit you for rate, especially on a skinny front-end deal, but both of my friends were in high positions; one was a desk manager, and the other....THE FINANCE DIRECTOR!!!

My point is this...had I have been working with a dealer I didn't know, I'd have been much more firm and probably thought the deal over in much greater depth, and if I would have taken the deal knowing that the rate was high, I'd have simply just blamed myself for being too hasty, and chalked it up to..."a lesson learned." However, the desk manager's son and me played ball together in high-school and college, and the finance director has been a patron of my restaurant for 12 years!!!

This is a high volume dealership, and they're gonna make a boatload of money on my trade since it's waaaaay clean. let me find it and I'll post the link. Anybody who wants to buy it, contact me first and I'll tell you how much they took it in for so you can lowball 'em.

I still don't know, what should I do about the survey? Send it in or not???

well my opinion is you should answer the survey honestly. I am pretty sure there is no place where it asked you did you feel you got the best interest rate you feel you deserved? If you think they are shady, why should you be shady too. If you feel they did their jobs, then say so.

by the way, Every customer that trades in their car thinks we are going to make money on that one. We lose money all the time on trade ins. I have a 90 day old tundra right now, 2003 that i cant rid of, I am sure they thought we would make a ton on their truck too.

before you get too upset, check into whether their was a rate hike for it being over the loan to value amount. I have a credit union here that charges more to go way over advanced on loans. So it is quite possible they did give you the best rate for YOUR DEAL. I am just throwing out ideas.

 

[TunTac]

well my opinion is you should answer the survey honestly. I am pretty sure there is no place where it asked you did you feel you got the best interest rate you feel you deserved? If you think they are shady, why should you be shady too. If you feel they did their jobs, then say so.

by the way, Every customer that trades in their car thinks we are going to make money on that one. We lose money all the time on trade ins. I have a 90 day old tundra right now, 2003 that i cant rid of, I am sure they thought we would make a ton on their truck too.

before you get too upset, check into whether their was a rate hike for it being over the loan to value amount. I have a credit union here that charges more to go way over advanced on loans. So it is quite possible they did give you the best rate for YOUR DEAL. I am just throwing out ideas.

Thanks for the advice. I did check and the the rate of 6.25% was effective as of 01/07 for up to 135% advance. I used about 113%. I know they were lying now, 'cause the desk manager, the fleet guy and the finance mangager all told me that 8.25% was their buy rate, I guess to make it seem like when they gave me 7.95%, that they were doin' me a favor. :td:

Like I said before, I beat myself up for not doing the proper research, but I'm very disappointed that three people (whom I knew, two of whom I knew well) pulled the blanket over my eyes. Also, I told them to write up an option contract so I could shop the rate, they told me it was useless and a waste of time. Again, people I trusted...had this have been a different dealership, I'd have been much fimer in my negotiations. Lesson learned!!

What are the effects of not sending in a survey? I don't want to take money out of a guy's pocket, but at the same time, I feel they took money out of mine. I'll think I'll just move on and chalk this one up to experience.

Thanks for letting me vent.

 

[SFTundraMan]

Thanks for the advice. I did check and the the rate of 6.25% was effective as of 01/07 for up to 135% advance. I used about 113%. I know they were lying now, 'cause the desk manager, the fleet guy and the finance mangager all told me that 8.25% was their buy rate, I guess to make it seem like when they gave me 7.95%, that they were doin' me a favor. :td:

Like I said before, I beat myself up for not doing the proper research, but I'm very disappointed that three people (whom I knew, two of whom I knew well) pulled the blanket over my eyes. Also, I told them to write up an option contract so I could shop the rate, they told me it was useless and a waste of time. Again, people I trusted...had this have been a different dealership, I'd have been much fimer in my negotiations. Lesson learned!!

What are the effects of not sending in a survey? I don't want to take money out of a guy's pocket, but at the same time, I feel they took money out of mine. I'll think I'll just move on and chalk this one up to experience.

Thanks for letting me vent.

I guess things are different where you live because here there would be no advantage of not giving you the buy rate for a credit union. Here they dont allow us to mark up the rate. They must have a credit union that allows them to do that. I know we dont

Not turning in a survey doesnt hurt or help them.

 

[TunTac]

I guess things are different where you live because here there would be no advantage of not giving you the buy rate for a credit union. Here they dont allow us to mark up the rate. They must have a credit union that allows them to do that. I know we dont

Not turning in a survey doesnt hurt or help them.

That's what I thought too about CU's. But, obviously they had a connection. Think about it...the CU would qualify me for the best rate, and then the dealer simply added a cushion of 1-2 points.

My lack of knowledge on the rate is my fault, but they knew the rate was lower and if they had no kick-back or incentive from the CU, then you're right, I should have received it at the published rate or whatever their buy rate indeed was.

There's no way that they were at their buy rate, as they switched the rate a few times from 8.5 to 8.25 to 7.95. They had room. Like you said earlier..."shady!"

 

[SFTundraMan]

That's what I thought too about CU's. But, obviously they had a connection. Think about it...the CU would qualify me for the best rate, and then the dealer simply added a cushion of 1-2 points.

My lack of knowledge on the rate is my fault, but they knew the rate was lower and if they had no kick-back or incentive from the CU, then you're right, I should have received it at the published rate or whatever their buy rate indeed was.

There's no way that they were at their buy rate, as they switched the rate a few times from 8.5 to 8.25 to 7.95. They had room. Like you said earlier..."shady!"

The credit unions here dont allow us to make rate. So that is why it is weird to me. Telling you not to do the either/or contract was a flat out lie though.

Personally and because I know you have thought about this deal way tooooooooooooooooo much before and now after. You should enjoy your truck and stop worrying about it. You are going to be old way before you time my friend. YOu got a truck for 100 over, You now got a rate that you now agree with. So let it go and move on. Dont invite the guys over for dinner and buy your next truck elsewhere if you feel that they lied to you.

 

[TunTac]

The credit unions here dont allow us to make rate. So that is why it is weird to me. Telling you not to do the either/or contract was a flat out lie though.

Personally and because I know you have thought about this deal way tooooooooooooooooo much before and now after. You should enjoy your truck and stop worrying about it. You are going to be old way before you time my friend. YOu got a truck for 100 over, You now got a rate that you now agree with. So let it go and move on. Dont invite the guys over for dinner and buy your next truck elsewhere if you feel that they lied to you.

Point taken!!!