[jqqd]

I bought a Tundra in 2001 and it has been what I would call average in quality, no where near perfect as some people like to rave about. But it is dependable transportation. I have been reading posts on the new Camry and it sounds like the quality has really gone down hill with major issues such as transmission replacements. Plus, Toyota just settled a class action suit over engine failures in multiple models and is extending the warranties on those products. One of the big selling points has always been quality with few repairs, but without the dependability why buy Toyota. The new Tundra is overpriced and if the quality issues hit this truck then the competition looks much better.

 

[TundraMaxxer]

Well I don't know what you've been reading, but the Toyota I've driven for nearly 10 years has never broke. I have never been left by the side of the road during the time I've had this vehicle. If you really believe your last sentence, then you should be buying a domestic....right?

 

[Sequoia2003]

Well I don't know what you've been reading, but the Toyota I've driven for nearly 10 years has never broke. I have never been left by the side of the road during the time I've had this vehicle. If you really believe your last sentence, then you should be buying a domestic....right?

Let's just hope Consumer Reports contacts you for their yearly updates on Toyota's quality.

My 1996 Tacoma V6 blew a head gasket at 19k miles, my 2000 Tundra had a brake recall and a TSB on the seat belts other than that all my other toyota's have been right on!

 

[TundraMaxxer]

A blown head gasket at 19K? A blown head gasket is somewhat rare for any mileage vehicle but pretty much unheard of in vehicles still in warranty. I'm not making excuses for Toyota, but that sounds like an engine defect to me. Something wasn't done right when that gasket was put in. Heck, I wouldn't even expect a Dodge to blow one that quick.

 

[paulphilly]

Anything made by human hands and hundreds/thousands of moving parts can have issues. However, statistically speaking, I will put my money on Toyota having fewer issues than any domestic competitor. I guarantee you that if you do research on the numbers, you will find that Toyota has WAYYYYYYYY less recalls, TSB's, issues than Ford, Chevy, Dodge. So, I will put my money on a truck that (according to the numbers which are factual based pieces of information) has been more reliable over the years than its competitors.

 

[mxsjw]

Anything made by human hands and hundreds/thousands of moving parts can have issues. However, statistically speaking, I will put my money on Toyota having fewer issues than any domestic competitor. I guarantee you that if you do research on the numbers, you will find that Toyota has WAYYYYYYYY less recalls, TSB's, issues than Ford, Chevy, Dodge. So, I will put my money on a truck that (according to the numbers which are factual based pieces of information) has been more reliable over the years than its competitors.

Very, very well said!

 

[YrHumbl&ObedntSrvnt]

Anything made by human hands and hundreds/thousands of moving parts can have issues. However, statistically speaking, I will put my money on Toyota having fewer issues than any domestic competitor. I guarantee you that if you do research on the numbers, you will find that Toyota has WAYYYYYYYY less recalls, TSB's, issues than Ford, Chevy, Dodge. So, I will put my money on a truck that (according to the numbers which are factual based pieces of information) has been more reliable over the years than its competitors.

The better quality doesn't come by magic. The initial designs and the manufacturing process are deliberately created to meet a quality bar. Overengineered mechanicals, tighter specs, worker training, and more quality checkpoints result in higher quality numbers. Detroit could do this tomorrow (or at least start with new designs), but their business models are geared for volume/price over quality. It is up to the consumer to estimate the total cost of ownership and decide how much quality is worth. I'm going with Toyota every time.

 

[skinny2]

They're not as bullet-proof as they were in the early 90's, but still above average. The dealers are still generally dumb-sticks, just like they were in the 90's.

If you really look at the numbers though, there's not a big difference between the best and worst reliable vehicles out there today. Reliability is pretty far down my list of requirements these days. My '92 Camry was excellent and gave me very few issues through 200k miles. My '97 Camry was mediocre at best and I sold it with 70k miles on the clock. My '95 Tacoma was fine until the A/C crapped out at 50k miles and cost me $700 to fix. My sister-in-laws '02 Celica has been average through 60k miles. Compound those few problems by the mentally challenged dealer we have near here and you wouldn't give Toyota too many bonus points.

I might not buy a Kia/Hyundai simply because i'm over 80 miles from the nearest dealer. Otherwise, if I like I buy.

 

[Buckeyefan]

Toyota quality - read a little bit closer

There's a great issue of Consumer Reports out right now - their annual Best and Worst Cars for 2007, as well as reliability reports. This year, a record 1.3 million readers responded to CR's survey. Some interesting results...

The Camry had a few black marks in the suspension, paint/trim, and body integrity categories, but only for the 2004 model year V6. The 4 banger was spotless (black) except for the 2007. The 2007 4 cylinder already has black marks for engine and electrical, and average marks for climate and power equipment.

The Accord isn't perfect either. Black marks for transmission, brakes, and audio system in the '01 and '03 models. It does rate out as a better vehicle than the Camry overall - and I'll agree with that as we've owned 4 Accords and a Pilot. We looked at the Camry, and it wasn't nearly as solid a vehicle as far as sedans go.

Looking at the trucks:
Dodge Ram 1500 4WD (21 black marks for 6 model years) STRONG
Nissan Titan (13 black marks for 3 model years) BEAUTIFUL
Chevy/GMC 1500 4WD (23 black marks for 6 model years) NICE
Ford F150 4WD (11 for 6 years) IMPRESSIVE FOR A DOMY
Toyota Tundra (5 for 6 years) :tu::tu::tu:

There's only a few vehicles that are spotless with not black marks - most dating back to the 2001 model year. They are:

Honda CR-V
Honda Civic
Honda Pilot (started in '03)

Lexus LS (Toyota)
Lexus RX300/330 (Toyota)

Toyota Camry 4 cylinder
Toyota Echo/Yaris
Toyota Highlander

Any questions?

 

[skinny2]

There's only a few vehicles that are spotless with not black marks - dating back to the 2001 model year. They are:
Honda CR-V
Honda Civic
Honda Pilot (started in '03)
Lexus LS
Lexus RX300/330
Toyota Camry 4 cylinder
Toyota Echo/Yaris
Toyota Highlander

Any questions?

Yeah, what's the numerical basis between the spotless models and the models with problems? I've never seen CR actually give any firm numbers to backup their data. For all we know, one problem could be the difference between best and worst. At least JD powers gives you something to go on (problems per 100 vehicles...)

 

[Buckeyefan]

Yeah, what's the numerical basis between the spotless models and the models with problems? I've never seen CR actually give any firm numbers to backup their data. For all we know, one problem could be the difference between best and worst. At least JD powers gives you something to go on (problems per 100 vehicles...)

JD Power is a joke. It's initial quality and buying experience. They don't even test products. Check the Dodge initial quality rating and get back with me.

CR uses full and half black marks only when a vehicle's problem rate exceeds 3%. If it's below 2% it gets a half red mark. Below 1%, a full red mark. The ratings are based on the percentage of respondents who reported problems for a certain trouble spot, compared with the average of all vehicles for that year.

 

[SportRallyFiveSpeed]

I bought a Tundra in 2001 and it has been what I would call average in quality, no where near perfect as some people like to rave about. But it is dependable transportation. I have been reading posts on the new Camry and it sounds like the quality has really gone down hill with major issues such as transmission replacements. Plus, Toyota just settled a class action suit over engine failures in multiple models and is extending the warranties on those products. One of the big selling points has always been quality with few repairs, but without the dependability why buy Toyota. The new Tundra is overpriced and if the quality issues hit this truck then the competition looks much better.

The decline in quality is because the manufacturing/assembly is being done in America - end of story.

 

[DW]

The decline in quality is because the manufacturing/assembly is being done in America - end of story.

I really hate to agree with this post...but I DO agree. My 96 V6 Camry was built in Japan. In 186,000 miles, it has been in for repairs ONE time...and that was for a minor air conditioner problem and a windshield washer that did not work. Heck, even the front and rear brake pads and the muffler are all original!
I love my '03 Tundra V-8. But, the front differential assembly had to be replaced under the drivetrain warranty and the original brakes lasted less than 40,000 miles. It's just not the same overall quality vehicle as is the old Camry, and it's mileage 100,000+ less than the old car.
Our next Toyota will likely be a Land Cruiser. I understand they are still built in Japan.

 

[Buckeyefan]

Is it any wonder then, that...

In 2005, Lexus completed a full organizational separation from parent company Toyota, with dedicated Lexus Design, engineering, training, and manufacturing centers working exclusively for the luxury division...

Many Lexus vehicles are manufactured in Toyota's Tahara, Japan plant, a highly sophisticated, computerized manufacturing plant.[16] In 2005, J.D. Power and Associates bestowed its Platinum award for worldwide plant quality on the Tahara plant, stating that it has the fewest defects of any manufacturing plant in the world.[17] It was the fourth consecutive year that the Tahara plant captured this award.

Craftmanship on the latest Lexus LS model extends to a paint process where the entire vehicle is hand-sanded twice,[22] the steering wheel leather buffed for six hours,[14] and the window chrome trim carved out of a single piece of metal and polished by hand.

We will know to stay away from the RX 350, lol...

The North American-market RX 350 (since the 2004 model year) is produced in the city of Cambridge, in Ontario, Canada, and is the first Lexus plant located outside of Japan.

-Wikipedia

 

[v8Toilet]

I've never seen CR actually give any firm numbers to backup their data.

They do publish that data; you just have to look for it. They're rating system also reflects problems per 100 vehicles sold as a percentage. You have to read the fine print. I've always found their surveys to be spot on with everything I used their information for in my purchases.

 

[msr1011]

I really hate to agree with this post...but I DO agree. My 96 V6 Camry was built in Japan. In 186,000 miles, it has been in for repairs ONE time...and that was for a minor air conditioner problem and a windshield washer that did not work. Heck, even the front and rear brake pads and the muffler are all original!
I love my '03 Tundra V-8. But, the front differential assembly had to be replaced under the drivetrain warranty and the original brakes lasted less than 40,000 miles. It's just not the same overall quality vehicle as is the old Camry, and it's mileage 100,000+ less than the old car.
Our next Toyota will likely be a Land Cruiser. I understand they are still built in Japan.

I will agree with you on this one. I had a 1990 Honda Accord (made in Japan) and it was a solid car and it is still running. I bought a 2003 Accord (made in Ohio), a first year new model, and it was terrible. Shakes, rattles and the carpet had to be replaced because it was cut short.

I have a 05 Acura TL, which is also made in Ohio, and at first I had some problems with it a first, but now it is a solid ride.

 

[skinny2]

JD Power is a joke. It's initial quality and buying experience. They don't even test products. Check the Dodge initial quality rating and get back with me. CR uses full and half black marks only when a vehicle's problem rate exceeds 3%. If it's below 2% it gets a half red mark. Below 1%, a full red mark. The ratings are based on the percentage of respondents who reported problems for a certain trouble spot, compared with the average of all vehicles for that year.

JD has longer term testing as well with their three-year dependability studies. Sorry, I'm just not a CR fan. Besides, I'm not arguing the fact that Toyota isn't better (as shown by both sources), but that better is just relative.

So a full black mark exceeds 3% problems and below 1% gets a full red mark. So basically anything above a full black mark is pretty damn good. How bad it is beyond the 3% is a big unknown. Could be 3%, could be 80%. If I'm going to lose sleep over reliability ratings, I'll take problems per hundred vehicles by a random sample vs the controlled sample CR uses.

And I looked up the initial quality on the Dodge, what was I supposed to get back with you on? That they're have .25 more problems than Toyota? According to the dependability study, Dodge has .8 more problems in three years. Oh the horror!

 

[skinny2]

The decline in quality is because the manufacturing/assembly is being done in America - end of story.

My '92 Camry was built in KY and was bullet-proof for 200k miles. My '97 Camry was built in Japan and had more problems and recalls in 70k miles than I can recall. Assembly does have something to do with it, but whether in Japan or not, Toyota is running balls-to-the-wall on production and quality is going to pay. My in-laws GX470 even had some initial issues and that's the gold-standard for reliable vehicle.

 

[Hickleberry]

Is it any wonder then, that...




We will know to stay away from the RX 350, lol...


-Wikipedia

I did notice the lol at the end of your sentence

CR gave the RX 350 an overall score of 84, which wasn't the lowest score for a Lexus.

If you take a look at CRs most reliable car list, you'll notice many are made in Canada and the U.S.

I think the difference which nobody seems to have mentioned is that the Big 3 are all unionized. Which is a license to sit on your butt and turn out crap all day.

 

[mln]

However, statistically speaking, I will put my money on Toyota having fewer issues than any domestic competitor. I guarantee you that if you do research on the numbers, you will find that Toyota has WAYYYYYYYY less recalls, TSB's, issues than Ford, Chevy, Dodge.

I wonder if you did a survey of Toyotas built in the United States against Toyotas built in Japan would the outcome be the same? What about stacking US built Toyotas against American built vehicles, would the gap close?