What concerns should I have about towing at GWVR?

1557 Views 12 Replies 8 Participants Last post by fivecodys, Apr 12, 2007

Big

Discussion Starter · Mar 27, 2007

My wife and I just bought a Genesis X3, three horse slant trailer to go with our 2004 4x4 Double Cab tow package Tundra. We have a B&W Hitch (not a flip hitch) for a goose neck connection.

Now, we are a Tundra family (she has a 2002), and our neighbors, who have a Ford F-150 with a similar trailer said "it'll be a'ight.."

But we started doing some research and have become concerned-

The trailer is 4270 lbs Dry weight.
The horses are 2300 lbs total weight (we only have two)
I weigh 200 lbs
The Tundra weighs 4780, acc'd to manual.
That puts us at 11550.
The GVWR is 11800.
Which means we have only 250 lbs for gasoline and weight gains and whatever else might happen before we go over the GVWR.

Now we are already planning on putting saddles, food, hay bales, luggage, a cooler, etc... in my wife's Tundra, so it won't affect the towing weight and capacities of my Tundra with the trailer.

But we are very close to the GVWR even doing that, and I don't know what the effects are of "living on the edge" of the GVWR. What should I be concerned about/notice?

We won't switch to a different truck for at least another year, so please have your answers relate to using our Toyotas.

Thank you!

Save

1 - 13 of 13 Posts

awesomebase

· #2 · Mar 27, 2007

Wow! Yes, you are very close but I would agree with your neighbor; you should be alright. Obviously the specs should be adhered to, but you should also understand that most of the time the numbers are pretty conservative and that you could probably do more safely, but that damage risks increase as you do so. I wouldn't worry too much about it. Trucks on construction sites and used for the city, etc. are always over-loaded (either payload or towing or a combo of both) and do just fine as long as you're within reason. Right now you are close to the max so I wouldn't worry. Now if you were about 1500 lbs over or so... well, that would be a different story!

Save

radicalwillie

· #3 · Mar 27, 2007

Wow, my biggest concern would be with braking. I am assuming the trailer utilizes surge or electronic brakes?? If it doesn't, you need to have some installed before you tow it a single mile. My second concern would be the tongue weight. You might want to consider an "air bag" style rear suspension upgrade or an "add a leaf". Third, I would be concerned about overheating the tranny. If you are going to be towing this frequently, you might want to add a larger ATF cooler. I subscribe to the school of thought that max weight ratings are just that, the absolute max that the truck should ever pull. In my opinion, the truck is not designed to operate at "Maximum" weight on a normal basis. You are definitely going to be increasing your wear and tear on your trucks components exponentially if you do this frequently. If I were you, I would go have a discussion with the service dept at a Toyota dealership and get their advice. Good luck with it and let us know how well it works for you!!

Save

awesomebase

· #4 · Mar 27, 2007

radicalwillie said:
Wow, my biggest concern would be with braking. I am assuming the trailer utilizes surge or electronic brakes?? If it doesn't, you need to have some installed before you tow it a single mile. My second concern would be the tongue weight. You might want to consider an "air bag" style rear suspension upgrade or an "add a leaf". Third, I would be concerned about overheating the tranny. If you are going to be towing this frequently, you might want to add a larger ATF cooler. I subscribe to the school of thought that max weight ratings are just that, the absolute max that the truck should be pulling. In my opinion, the truck is not designed to operate at "Maximum" weight on a normal basis. You are definitely going to be increasing your wear and tear on your trucks components exponentially if you do this frequently. If I were you, I would go have a discussion with the service dept at a Toyota dealership and get their advice. Good luck with it and let us know how well it works for you!!

Just an FYI to add to this... most states require trailers beyond a certain weight (i.e. 1000lbs, 1500lbs, etc.) to have trailer brakes as mandatory. So in addition to the concerns mentioned above, you may want to check with your local DMV online to see what requirements there are for that. In any case, most truck manufacturers also call for this... it should be in your manual.

Save

radicalwillie

· #5 · Mar 27, 2007

One other thing....God forbid, if you were ever involved in an accident and someone was injured, exceeding your weight rating could make you liable regardless of fault. Just something to always keep in mind.

Save

Cruiser13

· #6 · Mar 27, 2007

Yes, you should be fine because you need to look at the GCWR not the GVWR. The former is the Gross Combined Weight Rating or "the maximum weight of the vehicle and trailer". For the new tundras, that is about 16,000lbs, 10k and change for the trailer, plus the weight of the truck. The only thing I would worry about- besides adequate and safe trailer brakes and connections- is the tongue weight. The tongue weight counts as payload when considering how much you can put in the bed. So, put most of your gear in the trailer. Toyota has a towing guide and someone posted the Canadian version on the board yesterday. Just search for it.

Save

radicalwillie

· #7 · Mar 27, 2007

Cruiser13 said:
For the new tundras, that is about 16,000lbs, 10k and change for the trailer, plus the weight of the truck.

He's driving an '04.

Save

Big

Discussion Starter · #8 · Mar 27, 2007

radicalwillie said:
Wow, my biggest concern would be with braking. I am assuming the trailer utilizes surge or electronic brakes?? If it doesn't, you need to have some installed before you tow it a single mile. My second concern would be the tongue weight. You might want to consider an "air bag" style rear suspension upgrade or an "add a leaf". Third, I would be concerned about overheating the tranny. If you are going to be towing this frequently, you might want to add a larger ATF cooler. I subscribe to the school of thought that max weight ratings are just that, the absolute max that the truck should ever pull. In my opinion, the truck is not designed to operate at "Maximum" weight on a normal basis. You are definitely going to be increasing your wear and tear on your trucks components exponentially if you do this frequently. If I were you, I would go have a discussion with the service dept at a Toyota dealership and get their advice. Good luck with it and let us know how well it works for you!!

We have electronic Breaking on the Trailer, luckily, although when we bought it, I didn't even know to ask.
Our plan is to drive about 7-10 times a year, average distance of about 100 miles or less on mostly flat roads. What type of ATF do you suggest, as it looks like I will need to get it.

*sigh* if only my trade-in value was better on getting an 07.

-big

Save

Big

Discussion Starter · #9 · Apr 12, 2007

Re: Report on Towing this past weekend.

radicalwillie said:
Wow, my biggest concern would be with braking. I am assuming the trailer utilizes surge or electronic brakes?? If it doesn't, you need to have some installed before you tow it a single mile. My second concern would be the tongue weight. You might want to consider an "air bag" style rear suspension upgrade or an "add a leaf". Third, I would be concerned about overheating the tranny. If you are going to be towing this frequently, you might want to add a larger ATF cooler. I subscribe to the school of thought that max weight ratings are just that, the absolute max that the truck should ever pull. In my opinion, the truck is not designed to operate at "Maximum" weight on a normal basis. You are definitely going to be increasing your wear and tear on your trucks components exponentially if you do this frequently. If I were you, I would go have a discussion with the service dept at a Toyota dealership and get their advice. Good luck with it and let us know how well it works for you!!

Thank you for the advice. We did get weighed, and were under our GCWR and GWVR. But just barely. The trailer has all wheel electronic brakes and we have a B&W hitch and brake box.

The trip was about 230 miles, of mostly flat driving, with some occasional hills. We kept overdrive off, which did help considerably with Engine heat and tranny temps. I think during hot summer months we may travel mornings and nights, rather than middle of the day.

Braking: Actually this was pretty good, except for stopping once on about a 35 degree incline, where our brakes strained a bit to keep us in one place. In all other cases, we had plenty of braking power, assuming a 4 car spacing between us and other vehicles.

Towing Power: To be honest, except for up a couple of hills, it was as if we weren't towing anything at all. The Tundra had plenty of pulling power, and struggled only between 10 mph and 25 mph for acceleration.

Strain- Our tires are All Terrain Goodyears, and as at 50 PSI, there wasn't the "drop" you feel in some trucks when the hitch drops. Overall we felt pretty safe.

However... As my wife mentions, I am the slowest driver on the planet, so... 50 in a 55 mph zone, 65 in a 70 mph zone (or 60...). It helps to feel unpressured when driving the vehicle.

Many people at the event mostly drove Dodge or Ford 250/350 Super Heavy Duty, with a smattering of Chevys. Of the 100 plus people we were the only one in a Toyota with a Gooseneck. We had several people come up and say... "A Toyota can pull that?" "Yes it can, and pretty easily..." we replied.
One person actually talked about buying the 2007, but worried about how to get a hitch on it, with a tubular frame.

So the weekend is a success. For flat driving and towing, I would use the Tundra any time. Driving up the side of the Appalachians with a 6000 lb trailer... I may wait til I get a 2007... But the Tundra did much better than expected, and I think I converted a couple of Ford drivers to our "Dark-Side" of an American Made Towing Truck... The Tundra.

Thanks for all the advice, it made us worry, but gave us a very safe trip.

See less See more

Save

daviszr1

· #10 · Apr 12, 2007

Have you ever driven something this heavy before? It's a whole different world. Braking, as mentioned above, will be you largest "problem." It takes a LONG time to stop 16,000 pounds if you're used to driving empty.

Tongue weight is near critical with loads this high. You can get all kinds of nasty nasty problems with incorrectly loaded trailors. Things like the trailor not following the truck when you exit from the highway come to mind. NOT GOOD.

I think you'll be fine, but take it slow at first to get the feel if you don't haul heavy loads frequently.

Save

Beelzebub

· #11 · Apr 12, 2007

This link will take you the the RV.net forum, and they have a ton of information on Towing, setting up for towing, weights, hitches etc....
RV.Net Open Roads Forum: Towing
I also recommend that you consider looking into performance or heavy duty type of brake pads. In my former life (previous Ford Super Duty owner) there were a couple of companies who sold brake pads that were specialized just for heavy duty towing type applications. Folks talked about better stopping power, wear, lower heat etc. I think Hawk was one of the brands mentioned.
Also, as you mentioned, paying attention to your tranny temps would be a good idea. Simply switching to a full synthetic ATF fluid would help lower transmission temps. I have seen 10 degree drops by using synthetic ATF. I am partial to Amsoil (so much so that I became a dealer, but not trying to sell to you). Also, the rear end gear oil can be replaced to also reduce temps caused by heavy duty usage. A nice side effect to switching to synthetic fluids is that many people notice a slight gain in fuel milage. I did on both my Ford Ranger, and then the Super Duty.

See less See more

Save

Only Toyota for me

· #12 · Apr 12, 2007

I towed my 6200 lb fifth wheel house trailer with my 02 & it did okay. I had the 4 speed & i beleive yours is the 5. I was always searching for another gear with it. I had another leaf spring added & it helped a lot.

You outta visit the towing forum here & you'll get some pointers. I got the 07 tundra w/ the 5.7 now & i'm waiting on B&W for their gooseneck hitch. Towing with it has been amazing....just think about being able to tow your loaded trailer in 5th gear! It WILL do it, beleive me. 2400 r's at 70mph towing horses i would say is pretty impressive.
I live in Utah where there is a lot of 5-8% grades to pull so i needed more power. I pulled a 4000 lb trailer up a 6% grade with my 07 & i had to let off the gas halfway & i was in 4th at 70mph the rest of the way up.
I would recomend going full synthetic ATF,engine, & rearend fluid as well. It should help with the extra wear factor.
We just purchased a 4-horse aluminum gooseneck trailer which i intend to tow with my 07. This will put me at or slightly above GCWR. The trailer weighs 4500 lbs dry plus 4 horses @1200lbs ea. = 9300lbs so i'll have about 1000lbs to spare but i imagine i'll be maxed out after fully loaded.

Gooseneck is my preffered method of towing. See a lot of bumper pull house trailers overturned here.

See less See more

Save

fivecodys

· #13 · Apr 12, 2007

Big said:
My wife and I just bought a Genesis X3, three horse slant trailer to go with our 2004 4x4 Double Cab tow package Tundra. We have a B&W Hitch (not a flip hitch) for a goose neck connection.

Now, we are a Tundra family (she has a 2002), and our neighbors, who have a Ford F-150 with a similar trailer said "it'll be a'ight.."

But we started doing some research and have become concerned-

The trailer is 4270 lbs Dry weight.
The horses are 2300 lbs total weight (we only have two)
I weigh 200 lbs
The Tundra weighs 4780, acc'd to manual.
That puts us at 11550.
The GVWR is 11800.
Which means we have only 250 lbs for gasoline and weight gains and whatever else might happen before we go over the GVWR.

Now we are already planning on putting saddles, food, hay bales, luggage, a cooler, etc... in my wife's Tundra, so it won't affect the towing weight and capacities of my Tundra with the trailer.

But we are very close to the GVWR even doing that, and I don't know what the effects are of "living on the edge" of the GVWR. What should I be concerned about/notice?

We won't switch to a different truck for at least another year, so please have your answers relate to using our Toyotas.

Thank you!

You need to look at your GCVWR. (Gross Combined Vehicle Weight Rating)This is the trailer and truck weight together.
The GVWR is just the load rating for the truck itself which would include you, your cargo in the bed, and the tongue weight of the trailer.

GCVWR is GVWR+ the loaded weight of your trailer.

I imagine that you will be near the GCVWR but not over it. Do you have electric brakes on the trailer? IF not then this is where your concernes should be. That's alot of weight to stop.

Hope this is helpful.

Bill

PS. I pulled a 6,000 TT with my 05 Tundra an i was still below GCVWR.

Save

1 - 13 of 13 Posts

This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.

Top Contributors this Month