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Discussion Starter #1
My wife and I just bought a Genesis X3, three horse slant trailer to go with our 2004 4x4 Double Cab tow package Tundra. We have a B&W Hitch (not a flip hitch) for a goose neck connection.

Now, we are a Tundra family (she has a 2002), and our neighbors, who have a Ford F-150 with a similar trailer said "it'll be a'ight.."

But we started doing some research and have become concerned-

The trailer is 4270 lbs Dry weight.
The horses are 2300 lbs total weight (we only have two)
I weigh 200 lbs
The Tundra weighs 4780, acc'd to manual.
That puts us at 11550.
The GVWR is 11800.
Which means we have only 250 lbs for gasoline and weight gains and whatever else might happen before we go over the GVWR.

Now we are already planning on putting saddles, food, hay bales, luggage, a cooler, etc... in my wife's Tundra, so it won't affect the towing weight and capacities of my Tundra with the trailer.

But we are very close to the GVWR even doing that, and I don't know what the effects are of "living on the edge" of the GVWR. What should I be concerned about/notice?

We won't switch to a different truck for at least another year, so please have your answers relate to using our Toyotas.

Thank you!
(Reposted in Correct Forum)
 

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You got the math a little wrong, GVWR is total weight placed upon the tires of the truck, not including the weight of the trailer. You do need to know how much "tongue weight" is being applied by the fully loaded trailer though. You add tongue weight, dry weight, and anything else you'll be putting in the truck. That's how you determine GVW.

I also don't know where you're getting the specs for your truck but what i found was 6,600lbs GVWR and 6685lbs max towing. Looks like it isn't going to work afterall since the trailer and horses are too heavy. This will over-load many parts of the Tundra which can lead to many failures including breaking the frame and possibly causing a serious accident.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
I am new to the towing math, so I apologize.

Let's go with your numbers-

GVWR- 6600

Truck-4780 lbs
Gas- 26 * 6= 156 lbs
10% of Trailer weight (on gooseneck)
(4270 +2300)= 6570 *.1 = 657 lbs
Me- 200lbs
= Total weight on Truck- 5793 lbs

Remaining weight to be towed- Trailer (4270+ 2300)= 6570 - 10% on goose neck = 5913 to be towed

If the GVWR is 6600 then at 5793, I am 800lbs under
and if towing capacity is 6685, then I am at 5913.

I'm new to these forumulas, so I am probably getting this wrong, but it seems like I am ok on both of those numbers. What am I missing here?
 

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Lets put it this way, it even says in my manual that with proper towing tools, swaycontrol, weight dist. hitch & brake controller, the tundra can tow in the double digits, I forgot the exact number.

I tow an 18' toyhauler, fully loaded w/ water, yamaha rhino, and all other things needed to camp, plus dirtbike in the back of the truck. I have did this about 8 times now w/ no problems at all. Hills are the only part that suck. I do have airbags in the rear though...have too.
 

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This won't directly help you, but I recently cruised over a weigh station with the truck in "expedition" mode.

~3500# front axle
~3000# rear axle

Apparently that's about 500# over the GVWR for my Access Cab...I think you get the other 500# from the longer wheelbase on the Double Cab, since everything else (frame, axles, etc) is the same.

The truck did fine carrying all that weight over really rough terrain, stock gears, 35" tires, etc...plenty of power on the highway and the hills.

I know it's not exactly the same as your situation, but that's how it worked out at (for you) GVWR and over (for me). Hopefully that makes your decision a little easier. Your math looks good, and the longer wheelbase of your Dcab will handle a load better than my Access Cab. I don't know offhand what the maximum rear axle load is, but IIRC it's on the door. Personally I wouldn't worry about towing at the GCWR (combined rating, that's including the trailer), just be gentle.

-Sean
 

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It's not the GVWR that's the issue, but the combined weight of trailer, horses and equipement that you'll be towing. The max total weight the truck can "safely" tow is 6685lbs and the combined trailer is 6570lbs without gear so all you can add is 115lbs of gear in the trailer without exceeding the specs. You will have extra capacity in truck or in the bed since you wont go over the GVWR if in deed the trailer applies 657lbs of tongue weight, but i'd verify that.

I understand that people do over-load their trucks every day of the week and nothing bad happens, usually, but don't forget these numbers are also given a best case senario. If someone in front of you jams on their brakes, even below max weight then something very bad is going to happen. Experience towing, properly maintained and equiped vehicle, and road conditions will make it much safer but you can never anticipate everything that can happen. I, myself, and many friends have gone over GVWR without issue, well not some friends who've almost killed people because he over loaded his F350 and while coming down a hill the lugs on 1 side gave out and sent a tire flying into a church. Luckly no one was in there but if someone was in the way, that wouldn't be pretty. It's up to you whether or not to take the gamble, which based on the numbers you're safe, but you've removed much of the safety margin. Take it slow and easy. If it were me, i'd be looking at a bigger truck.
 

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I believe the actual question you asked was about the risks of towing at/near capacity, right??

The risks include brake failure or overheating, transmission overheating/failure, poor handling, esp. in emergency situaitons, not to mention the strain it'll put on the engine.

It's true that you can minimize several of these concerns w/ slooooow and careful driving, but as was mentioned earlier, if some bozo slams on thier brakes in front of you, it may cause a bit of a mess. (instant glue factory behind your truck).

That's what I know about towing capacity. I had my '02 pretty darned close to capacity w/ my 27 foot travel trailer, & it was ok.

Good Luck!
 

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Check out the Towing forum, tons of good info in their. Also, Rockymtnray seems to really know his stuff when it comes to towing with tundra's. You might want to PM him with your questions.
 

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I would suggest loading the horses into the trailer, have the truck topped off. Then go find a scale and actually weigh everything together, then seperate axles.

Just be careful, but its the best way to accuratly know what you have.

That way you would really know what you have before you get too panic striken.

Then report back here. The reported weights are not always accurate.
 

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Ever the explorer
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Now that this in the correct section we should have more hits.
 

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I can answer the towing performance at max ratings issue. But first, a little check of your weights.

Your truck weighs 5,000 lbs empty. Ignore the spec weight in the manual. That is for a truck with no options. A very good estimate is on the sticker on the door jam (driver's side). It says something like "max payload capacity =" or something like that. That will be closer than the specs in the manual. Actually weighing your truck is the best way to go.

Based on the numbers you provided, you'll be close and likely over weight. But, you can determine that by weighing the full rig since you own all the parts involved already. Based on the horse trailers I have seen, the pin weight will be more than 10% of the weight of the trailer, but I could be wrong.

I tow at my GVWR and GCWR with a 2005 4x2 Tundra. Just finishing up a 2,000 mile camping trip. All level towing with all the right equipment. The performance is fine as long as you don't expect to race anyone. I ran 69 mph to keep from getting run over, but prefer 60-65 mph for improved gas mileage. The 6% grades I have travelled in western MD required 3rd gear and 4,000 rpm, but that's fine for me.

With almost 2 years and 5,000 miles of towing, I have no issues. But man, those are some HARD miles. Everything is working real hard. I plan to keep this truck for a long time and anticipate no problems. But I can't speculate what it will be like after 100,000 miles.

So, the 4.6L Tundra tows fine at sea level on up to 6% grades. Short term reliability has been great. I think Ray can provide some better insight on higher altitude towing.

For the weight issue, nothing beats a trip across the scales. We loaded up for a 10 day camping adventure and I put no restrictions on the family with regards to what they could load. Ran across the scales, and it seems they loaded everything. I was 200 lbs over on my GVWR and 300 lbs over on my GCWR. Dumped the fresh water and burned some wood at the first stop and got back within limits. Nothing beats a trip across the scales.

Tom
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Towing Report

I can answer the towing performance at max ratings issue. But first, a little check of your weights.

Your truck weighs 5,000 lbs empty. Ignore the spec weight in the manual. That is for a truck with no options. A very good estimate is on the sticker on the door jam (driver's side). It says something like "max payload capacity =" or something like that. That will be closer than the specs in the manual. Actually weighing your truck is the best way to go.

Based on the numbers you provided, you'll be close and likely over weight. But, you can determine that by weighing the full rig since you own all the parts involved already. Based on the horse trailers I have seen, the pin weight will be more than 10% of the weight of the trailer, but I could be wrong.

I tow at my GVWR and GCWR with a 2005 4x2 Tundra. Just finishing up a 2,000 mile camping trip. All level towing with all the right equipment. The performance is fine as long as you don't expect to race anyone. I ran 69 mph to keep from getting run over, but prefer 60-65 mph for improved gas mileage. The 6% grades I have travelled in western MD required 3rd gear and 4,000 rpm, but that's fine for me.

With almost 2 years and 5,000 miles of towing, I have no issues. But man, those are some HARD miles. Everything is working real hard. I plan to keep this truck for a long time and anticipate no problems. But I can't speculate what it will be like after 100,000 miles.

So, the 4.6L Tundra tows fine at sea level on up to 6% grades. Short term reliability has been great. I think Ray can provide some better insight on higher altitude towing.

For the weight issue, nothing beats a trip across the scales. We loaded up for a 10 day camping adventure and I put no restrictions on the family with regards to what they could load. Ran across the scales, and it seems they loaded everything. I was 200 lbs over on my GVWR and 300 lbs over on my GCWR. Dumped the fresh water and burned some wood at the first stop and got back within limits. Nothing beats a trip across the scales.

Tom
Wow, my biggest concern would be with braking. I am assuming the trailer utilizes surge or electronic brakes?? If it doesn't, you need to have some installed before you tow it a single mile. My second concern would be the tongue weight. You might want to consider an "air bag" style rear suspension upgrade or an "add a leaf". Third, I would be concerned about overheating the tranny. If you are going to be towing this frequently, you might want to add a larger ATF cooler. I subscribe to the school of thought that max weight ratings are just that, the absolute max that the truck should ever pull. In my opinion, the truck is not designed to operate at "Maximum" weight on a normal basis. You are definitely going to be increasing your wear and tear on your trucks components exponentially if you do this frequently. If I were you, I would go have a discussion with the service dept at a Toyota dealership and get their advice. Good luck with it and let us know how well it works for you!!
Thank you for the advice. We did get weighed, and were under our GCWR and GWVR. But just barely. The trailer has all wheel electronic brakes and we have a B&W hitch and brake box.

The trip was about 230 miles, of mostly flat driving, with some occasional hills. We kept overdrive off, which did help considerably with Engine heat and tranny temps. I think during hot summer months we may travel mornings and nights, rather than middle of the day.

Braking: Actually this was pretty good, except for stopping once on about a 35 degree incline, where our brakes strained a bit to keep us in one place. In all other cases, we had plenty of braking power, assuming a 4 car spacing between us and other vehicles.

Towing Power: To be honest, except for up a couple of hills, it was as if we weren't towing anything at all. The Tundra had plenty of pulling power, and struggled only between 10 mph and 25 mph for acceleration.

Strain- Our tires are All Terrain Goodyears, and as at 50 PSI, there wasn't the "drop" you feel in some trucks when the hitch drops. Overall we felt pretty safe.

MPG- About 7 mpg for the trip.

However... As my wife mentions, I am the slowest driver on the planet, so... 50 in a 55 mph zone, 65 in a 70 mph zone (or 60...). It helps to feel unpressured when driving the vehicle.

Many people at the event mostly drove Dodge or Ford 250/350 Super Heavy Duty, with a smattering of Chevys. Of the 100 plus people we were the only one in a Toyota with a Gooseneck. We had several people come up and say... "A Toyota can pull that?" "Yes it can, and pretty easily..." we replied.
One person actually talked about buying the 2007, but worried about how to get a hitch on it, with a tubular frame.

So the weekend is a success. For flat driving and towing, I would use the Tundra any time. Driving up the side of the Appalachians with a 6000 lb trailer... I may wait til I get a 2007... But the Tundra did much better than expected, and I think I converted a couple of Ford drivers to our "Dark-Side" of an American Made Towing Truck... The Tundra.

Thanks for all the advice, it made us worry, but gave us a very safe trip.
 
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