[YamelessWrench]

I know that the correct answer about towing above weight rating is "not safe" but from experience there is a margin that can be used with caution.


We are looking at moving across a significant portion of the country. the wife is uneasy about driving long distances, and hard no on towing our current 8x20 enclosed trailer any distance. She had an impact with it just moving it in our driveway, she wont drive a U-haul either. My wife is a smart book worm but clumsy and not at all aware of how physics works, I don't want to push her beyond her comfort zone. Witch makes for a conundrum I need to do it all in one vehicle I drive, all my eggs in one basket so to speak.


Our current 20’ is old and on its last legs and not big enough, considering moving up to a 24’ or 28’


I used to punish my poor 96 6cyl LandCruiser with the 8x20, one run was 13K GCVW, well over the cruisers rating, it was slow going uphill but it made it there eventually, electric brakes were a necessity, the trailer had to help stop to have a reasonable stopping distance, and I had installed bags to help out the coil springs.


I recently bought her a used 2016 Sequoia with 200k miles, rated for 7k pounds towed, it has a lot more power than my cruiser, and seams to have more weight on the ground how much trailer can it really tow? I would imagine there is one answer for eastern flatland and another for western mountain passes. Passes are problematic both ways, pulling up and slowing on the way down.


I know the coil rear will be an issue with tongue weight, I can probably balance it well enough by carefully balancing the load, I will need to install my brake controller. I am hoping not to have to put bags in this time.

So what is the max you have towed with a second gen 5.7l Sequoia that felt OK?

 

[jshack71]

I know its a bit older but I regularly tow about a 7100lb boat w/double axel trailer with my 2008 Sequoia and frankly barely feel it back there. I've never had any sway. I did invest in a hitch/ball that was properly weight rated and adjustable up and down. And before anyone asks I'm not using a Weight Distribution Hitch. The boat trailer won't allow it because it has a foldable tongue. I did put two air bags inside the rear coil springs just to help. The only issue I ever had was I was towing the boat and had just picked up about 300# of lead weight. I put the lead weight in the back of the Sequoia and was could definitely tell I had too much weight going on back there as we were bouncing around a bit too much. I pulled over and moved the weights to behind the passenger and drivers seat and everything was fine thereafter. The 5.7l is a beast.

 

[bruin]

I would look into adding a WDH, loading up the truck and trailer with all your gear then heading to a Cat scale near you. You really need to understand where the weight is and what changes you can do to improve the current scenario to keep it within the vehicle's rated ability. .

 

[5point9limited]

Honestly, It is all about the hitch. I tow a 31' Airstream camper. It tows beautifully with a Hensley Hitch. I weighed in on a CAT scale and am guessing the trailer is just south of 8,000lbs. Power is not an issue if you downshift manually and leave it in 5th gear.

 

[NCSCOTT]

The 08s thru 10s had a published max tow rating up to 10,000 Lbs. Toyota was the first Manufacture to go all in on the SAE J2807 Tow Rating Procedures in 2011. The Detroit 3 did not adopt the rating procedure until 2014-15. In 2008 the 10K Rating was limited to a specific Model Code 2WD 5.7L Tow Package. ie.. 4:30 Gears, Transmission & Oil Cooler. Max Rating for any 4WD was 9600 Lbs w/ 5.7 & Towing Package and a specific Model Code,. There are multiple model codes and ratings. See Attach Pic of 08 Manual. My understanding is nothing was changed mechanically. Just the rating method. You can take that for what its worth. Many will use a vehicle beyond its published rating.

My father was a Semi Driver. Based on what I learned from him over the years, if you were to have an incident while towing one of the first things they will do is evaluate and likely weigh your set up to see if you were within limits. A lawyer would use that info against you in a case if you were over the published limits. You would have to be willing to accept the risk.

Just food for thought.

I wish you safe travels!!

 

[rekmeyata]

Typically you should have a vehicle that is at least overrated by 25% of the weight you'll be towing. Meaning, if you have a vehicle rated to tow 10,000 pounds I wouldn't exceed 7,500, but that's just me and my experience. My experience was I had a Ford F150 with a 302 V8 rated to tow 7,500 pounds, I had a trailer that weighed 6,000 pounds loaded, that truck struggled at towing that trailer, even slight hills required me to floor it which dropped it a gear; bigger hills, not mountain grades just hills, the truck would slow down till it downshifted, and then continue to slow down till it downshifted again then it would maintain. My newer Toyota Tacoma with the 5.7 tows the same trailer and I don't even know it's behind me!

Personally, I don't like marginal vehicles, I want a vehicle that will tow my trailer without stressing the engine, the cooling system, or the brakes.

 

[Rotorican85]

I have towed my 20ft enclosed trailer and race car setup on a 550 mile trip and it was no issue. trailer weighs 3860, car is 2120, plus tents, chairs, generator, tool box, spare tire, cooler, my son, luggae, etc etc etc....figure about another 1000 on top (tool box being the heaviest). My 2016 5.7 did just fine cruising at 70-75 all the way and this is a trip where I am gaining altitude. now mpg's sucked but truck felt solid and safe using a WDH.

 

[rekmeyata]

But that was only around 7,000 pounds you towed with a Tundra rated to tow around 10,000 pounds, so you basically are towing the same weight as my camping trailer weighs.

By the way in my last post, I mistakenly called my Toyota a Tacoma, it's Tundra with a 5.7 as mentioned.

That's another weird thing you mentioned, the original window sticker came with my truck, it said 20 mpg on the highway, I haven't gotten more than 15 on the hwy, That's a 5 mpg difference, this same mileage was off with the Ford F150 I had but more so with the Ford. The Ford said it would get 20 as well but I never saw more than 14. The big difference between the two in MPG is when towing, I only got 4 to 6 mpg with the Ford but the Toyota is getting 11 to 12. I took the Ford to a Ford dealer about the MPG issue and they said it was normal? They tested it and found nothing wrong, so I'll take the Toyota to the dealer and see what they find, but I have a feeling it's probably normal because I talked to another Tundra 5.7 owner and they said they get the same mpg I do and their truck was 5 years newer than mine.

 

[YamelessWrench]

Took the trailer for a short trip with the Sequoia, medium loaded and and just across town, it did wonderfully, like it was not even there. very impressed with its first run. but this was well within its weight rating.

Even lightly loaded my FZJ-80 the trailer weight was very noticeable, there was a lot of sway, and bump reaction and weird rebounds, and with my T-100 it was like that ant you see struggling to drag an impossibly large crumb many times its size across the concrete. with the T100 backing in wet grass for instance the rear axle would slide, and kick out instead of turning the trailer, it was just so light it had no grip to the earth. the FZJ-80 had grip but no power. the Sequoia has a lot of grip and power. 4lo pulled the trailer with no problem in soft, wet, back yard dirt. not a bit of tire slip. like it was tarmac.

The Sequoia has a wonderful turning radius for its size, it has been nice for parking but for towing it is even more impressive, trailer backs and turns right where I want it to.

I still have yet to pull a big load, I am going to try to break my tools into 2 loads to reduce the weight, still think I will be over 7k but that should be closer.

I have heard good things about the Hinsley hitch both here and with an RV family we follow on Youtube. (keep your daydream) but the expense is ugly right now as this is a rare pull just for a move, that may be a good investment down the road along with bags.

I would like to ask you heavy pullers do you tow with traction control off? I don't want to wind up here:

Sequoia - Almost Epic Crash While Towing

2012 Sequoia, SR5. Towing 5,000 LB boat, dual axle, surge brakes. On interstate, slight descent, was on the gas a little to pass a semi, about 68 MPH, heard a sound, gas pedal kind of popped or felt spongy, or something. Almost seemed like the engine was breaking. Instantly threw me into a...

www.tundrasolutions.com

Does tow mode disable any of the stability/traction controls? or do i also need to tuen off traction control? kinda makes sense the traction control is going to have algorithms tuned for just the Sequoia, with a whole seperate mass attached at a pivot way in the back with a long leaver arm there are going to be all kinds of diffrent yaw loads that may look like tire slip to the sensor but are just the trailer pushing the suspension around, and the computers solutions for correction would be wrong also as we have an added dynamic and reactive load, likely in opposite direction.

 

[rekmeyata]

The tow mode isn't really noticeable on flat level ground but is ascending and descending steep grades. What it does is holds the shift points longer, and it downshifts sooner for engine braking. It supposedly helps with steering power, how that works I'm not sure. But the tow mode does not disable the stability/traction control, to do that you have to press the VSC switch which will then activate a light on the dash to indicate it's disabled. Personally, after reading some stuff about the VSC is that I would leave it on when towing...however there were some problems I've read where people were towing a bit fast descending and rounding a curve at the same time and the traction control kicked in and they didn't like the feeling of that happening. For one, when towing you shouldn't be going fast anyways, and you need to watch your downhill speed. What the VSC does is senses the body roll while cornering which in turn will pull the rear end of the vehicle around to help the trailer to pull around better. Ok, some people didn't like that feeling and others didn't mind it, so it's a personal thing.

There is an excellent discussion on the VSC subject here, I suggest you read all the comments, there is even a way to recalibrate the VSC which is mentioned in the discussions: Traction Control While Towing

 

[YamelessWrench]

That is solid info, wont give me any legal protections but makes me feel better about it, mine is a USK65L-GKTSGA, W/tow package, that puts it at the 9600# mark on that chart (400lbs lost to extra weight in transfer case and front axle) unless the G vs K in the second to last "digit" is signifigant.

I think I will hold to 16k combined and 9600 trailer, we have a cat scale near the freeway in our town.

The 08s thru 10s had a published max tow rating up to 10,000 Lbs. Toyota was the first Manufacture to go all in on the SAE J2807 Tow Rating Procedures in 2011. The Detroit 3 did not adopt the rating procedure until 2014-15. In 2008 the 10K Rating was limited to a specific Model Code 2WD 5.7L Tow Package. ie.. 4:30 Gears, Transmission & Oil Cooler. Max Rating for any 4WD was 9600 Lbs w/ 5.7 & Towing Package and a specific Model Code,. There are multiple model codes and ratings. See Attach Pic of 08 Manual. My understanding is nothing was changed mechanically. Just the rating method. You can take that for what its worth. Many will use a vehicle beyond its published rating.

My father was a Semi Driver. Based on what I learned from him over the years, if you were to have an incident while towing one of the first things they will do is evaluate and likely weigh your set up to see if you were within limits. A lawyer would use that info against you in a case if you were over the published limits. You would have to be willing to accept the risk.

Just food for thought.

I wish you safe travels!!

View attachment 153322

 

[YamelessWrench]

The tow mode isn't really noticeable on flat level ground but is ascending and descending steep grades. What it does is holds the shift points longer, and it downshifts sooner for engine braking. It supposedly helps with steering power, how that works I'm not sure. But the tow mode does not disable the stability/traction control, to do that you have to press the VSC switch which will then activate a light on the dash to indicate it's disabled. Personally, after reading some stuff about the VSC is that I would leave it on when towing...however there were some problems I've read where people were towing a bit fast descending and rounding a curve at the same time and the traction control kicked in and they didn't like the feeling of that happening. For one, when towing you shouldn't be going fast anyways, and you need to watch your downhill speed. What the VSC does is senses the body roll while cornering which in turn will pull the rear end of the vehicle around to help the trailer to pull around better. Ok, some people didn't like that feeling and others didn't mind it, so it's a personal thing.

There is an excellent discussion on the VSC subject here, I suggest you read all the comments, there is even a way to recalibrate the VSC which is mentioned in the discussions: Traction Control While Towing

ok I feel better informed about the issue now, non stock size tires seam to be a common theme, along with downhill and turning. I know what to watch out for.

My sequoia came with tires of a slightly different size than stock, but I think the diameter is close to the same, i will be happy when they wear out and I can put on some Michelin LTX.

 

[NCSCOTT]

I saw rekmeyata mentioned to turn off Traction control you push and release the traction control button. That is true. However to fully disable all VSC and Traction control, while at a stop, you must monetarily push and release the traction control button, then push and hold (Approximately 5 seconds) the traction control button until VSC OFF lights up, the Traction control off (Vehicle with wavy lines) and AUTO LSD lights. Then everything is off until you monetarily push the traction control off button or shutdown and restart the engine. Just like the tow haul mode must be reactivated each time you restart the truck.

In mud and sand, and sometimes snow situations the damn traction control will get you stuck quicker than anything. Grew up in Southern MI so very familiar with snow, plus silver lake sand dunes and my fair share of mud. I have always left it on while towing.

If you already know this info please forgive the repeat.

Safe travels.

 

[YamelessWrench]

I did not, thank you.

I saw rekmeyata mentioned to turn off Traction control you push and release the traction control button. That is true. However to fully disable all VSC and Traction control, while at a stop, you must monetarily push and release the traction control button, then push and hold (Approximately 5 seconds) the traction control button until VSC OFF lights up, the Traction control off (Vehicle with wavy lines) and AUTO LSD lights.

 

[NCSCOTT]

No Problem. Fully disabled is also known as Donut mode.... Just a big kid here when it comes to fresh snow in a parking lot!! Living in SC you have to take every opportunity you get to play, Last time was Jan 2018, 7 inches of snow in Charleston, SC. From the natives you would have thought it was the end of times........ LOL

If you only press the release the traction control button it will let you spin a tire more or less in a straight line. The instant you get any yaw it starts beeping at you and pulls power. Fully disabled allows for more shenanigans.

I do not currently have a 4WD, but if I recall when you lock the center Diff it disables the VSC and traction control. Had a 2008 4Runner SE 4x4, and the 4WD system operated like the Sequoia's system.

I did not, thank you.

 

[YamelessWrench]

OK had the first big tow yesterday, learned quite a bit,

I did a quickly install for the brake controller, I did not want to cut or drill her dash and I was pressed for time, so I popped out two switch blanks to the left of the steering wheel and ran a big zip-tie around a metal strut supporting the steering column and strapped it to the dash, easy access to the manual brake lever. took 20 min to install.

As I was loading the trailer I was trying to balance the heavy items like tool boxes over the axle and only light fluffy things in front so as to avoid my headlights pointing to the sky. first few miles I had pretty bad sway above 40mph, got to 50 and got amplifying sway, where each cycle got stronger than the last, got really bad at one point the the vehicle stability kicked in. putted at 40mph to the CAT scales and got a surprise, I had tried to be conservative in loading it and I was expecting 5k 6k or maybe 7k pounds.

16,840 pounds combined. 7,340 on the Sequoias tires and 9,500 on the trailers tires. so back to the storage unit where I pulled several hundred pounds off from the rear of the trailer,

Second weigh, 16,180 total, 7,440 Sequoia tires, 8740 on the trailer tires, adding just 100 pounds of tongue weight dramatically reduced sway, but other drives are quite unhappy with my headlight beam.

For stability I need tongue weight, coil springs are comfy but only work well for a tight range of weights, when you exceed their range they sag deeply. truck leaf springs like on the otherwise identical tundra have an advantage here,

I ran into the same problem with my coil sprung Land Cruiser (FZJ-80), and bags were the solution, I was hoping to avoid this here but like many of you it looks like I need bags again,



Anybody know what is the empty weight of a 4x4 2016, trying to figure out how much of this is Sequoia and how much is tongue weight or cargo.

 

[NCSCOTT]

Everywhere I look states 5985 to 6000 Lbs for the curb weight of a 2016 4x4 Limited, Platinum, or SR5. Not sure if that includes fuel or not.

 

[YamelessWrench]

OK, 3k Miles of very heavy towing later,

I wound up having to install the air lift 1000 bags, that let me move more weight forward, also moved everything from the back of the sequoia to the front of the trailer, most of this weight went right back on the rear axle but now as tongue weight, helping with stability. sway almost eliminated. the only place that did not feel stable was steep downhill, we made a wrong turn in AZ and wound up on the mountains, the 11,000 pound plus trailer was pushing hard on a 10% downhill grade, adding in some drag with the brake controller would stabilize it.

most downs were 6% or less and it handled those just fine. go for second gear tach out the 5.7 to 4K and only need occasional brake application, the 10% grade I was over 5K in second and standing on the brakes and the brake controller lever, at about 70mph air drag starts helping a lot also, the brakes held and I made it down the mountain before brake fade.

Speed was a problem, 60 in fifth gear (could not hold 6th) was my sweet spot, I could do 70 on flat ground but the trans would hunt for a gear, a lot, and I was concerned about its longevity, 60 is slow on the freeway these days, spending hours a day for days being passed by semi's is nerve wracking.

to answer my own question 16.000 gross combined can be done and seams safe-ish under reasonable conditions, but don't make a wrong turn in the mountains. I also stayed south on 1-10 as long as possible to avoid ice and snow, i-40 or even i-80 would have been more direct, but frozen in spots.